20 year old white zinc oxide ? loaded thermally conductive grease , somewhat
crumbly and cream instead of white in the covered areas under
transistors/mica, ie not openly exposed to air.
Normal aging or long-term / repeatedly run at times over-temperature or both

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

N_Cook wrote:

20 year old white zinc oxide ? loaded thermally conductive grease ,
somewhat crumbly and cream instead of white in the covered areas under
transistors/mica, ie not openly exposed to air.
Normal aging or long-term / repeatedly run at times over-temperature
or both

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

That stuff dries out over time baked with the heat from the CPU.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

In message , Baron
writes
N_Cook wrote:

20 year old white zinc oxide ? loaded thermally conductive grease ,
somewhat crumbly and cream instead of white in the covered areas under
transistors/mica, ie not openly exposed to air.
Normal aging or long-term / repeatedly run at times over-temperature
or both

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

That stuff dries out over time baked with the heat from the CPU.


The question is "Is the thermal conductivity reduced when the grease
dries out?"

Some 30 years ago, in the lab where I worked, we did some comparative
tests on the effectiveness of thermal compound. We did the tests on a
TO3 transistor bolted to a large heatsink, with a variety of interfaces.

With or without a mica washer, thermal compound seemed to make very
little difference. Surprisingly, the best conductivity seemed to be with
a thin piece of Izal toilet paper (no mica). However, although we
concluded that thermal compound was probably a very viscous form of
snake oil, it didn't seem to be consistently worse than when it wasn't
used, so we continued to use it in production.
--
Ian

Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Baron
writes

snip...snip


The question is "Is the thermal conductivity reduced when the grease
dries out?"

Some 30 years ago, in the lab where I worked, we did some comparative
tests on the effectiveness of thermal compound. We did the tests on a
TO3 transistor bolted to a large heat sink, with a variety of interfaces.

With or without a mica washer, thermal compound seemed to make very
little difference. Surprisingly, the best conductivity seemed to be with
a thin piece of Izal toilet paper (no mica). However, although we
concluded that thermal compound was probably a very viscous form of
snake oil, it didn't seem to be consistently worse than when it wasn't
used, so we continued to use it in production.

Hello Ian:

The Izal toilet paper you refer to isn't readily available on all
continents. However, might we deduce that almost any toilet paper
might have done comparably?

In all seriousness, does the possibility exist that thermal compounds,
in the mid-1970s, were very inferior to todays offerings?

What you have stated is /very/ interesting.

Thank you.

--
1PW

1PW "OneNpOeSnPuAtMwhistle att a0l dot calm" wrote in message
...
Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Baron
writes

snip...snip


The question is "Is the thermal conductivity reduced when the grease
dries out?"

Some 30 years ago, in the lab where I worked, we did some comparative
tests on the effectiveness of thermal compound. We did the tests on a
TO3 transistor bolted to a large heat sink, with a variety of
interfaces.

With or without a mica washer, thermal compound seemed to make very
little difference. Surprisingly, the best conductivity seemed to be with
a thin piece of Izal toilet paper (no mica). However, although we
concluded that thermal compound was probably a very viscous form of
snake oil, it didn't seem to be consistently worse than when it wasn't
used, so we continued to use it in production.

Hello Ian:

The Izal toilet paper you refer to isn't readily available on all
continents. However, might we deduce that almost any toilet paper
might have done comparably?

In all seriousness, does the possibility exist that thermal compounds,
in the mid-1970s, were very inferior to todays offerings?

What you have stated is /very/ interesting.

Thank you.

--
1PW

And my little experiment into modern day snake oil sales, no patent revenue
stream on the use of mica compared to new doobries.

From one of my repair brief files

Kustom KPM6160A mixer amp from 1997
....
The heatsink insulating pads had shrunk,
probably excessive heat, leaving a crumpling
on the uncompressed areas, but all in working order as a pa.
Replaced with mica washers.
Previously took 50 minutes to stabilise at 33 deg C
above ambient pumping 9Vac of 400Hz continuous sine
into 4 ohms.
With mica replacements, down to 30 minutes and you
could keep your fingers on the body of the trannies,
too hot previously.
The pads may have chemically failed , but even then ,
mica does not degrade over 10 years.
....


--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

Ian Jackson wrote:

In message , Baron
writes
N_Cook wrote:

20 year old white zinc oxide ? loaded thermally conductive grease ,
somewhat crumbly and cream instead of white in the covered areas
under transistors/mica, ie not openly exposed to air.
Normal aging or long-term / repeatedly run at times over-temperature
or both

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

That stuff dries out over time baked with the heat from the CPU.


The question is "Is the thermal conductivity reduced when the grease
dries out?"

I would have said so ! Otherwise there would be little reason to use it
in the first place. Certainly in the case of CPU to heat sink
conductivity the very thin film thickness of phase change material is
superior to the normal white filled silicone compounds. But it does
require a specific minimum temperature before it flows and thins out.
After that point the thiner the film gets the hotter it has to be
before it flows further.

Some 30 years ago, in the lab where I worked, we did some comparative
tests on the effectiveness of thermal compound. We did the tests on a
TO3 transistor bolted to a large heatsink, with a variety of
interfaces.

Thermal compounds have come a long way in 30 years.

With or without a mica washer, thermal compound seemed to make very
little difference. Surprisingly, the best conductivity seemed to be
with a thin piece of Izal toilet paper (no mica). However, although we
concluded that thermal compound was probably a very viscous form of
snake oil, it didn't seem to be consistently worse than when it wasn't
used, so we continued to use it in production.

There is a test rig described on one of the manufacturers web sites that
deals with measuring thermal conductivity. It has a number of graphs
showing different materials thermal conductivity against thickness and
pressure. Bergquist springs to mind.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.