Safety issue ? -Phonic Power Pod 1062,mixer amp, from 2002
 

In for switch replacement but owner says he has , sometime back , got a
shock off the mains lead by touching the earth pin when just unplugged from
the mains.
I told him probably static discharge rather than anything to do with mains ,
but explored , just in case.
The large conventional type mains transformer is mounted on a metal plate
that is held to the wood of the casing by 4 bolts. There is no earth strap ,
or ever has been , to this plate or transformer frame, so not earthed. The 4
bolts are exposed through casing on base of the amp. Hum issue if earth
strap put in place ?


--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

Safety issue ? -Phonic Power Pod 1062,mixer amp, from 2002
 

"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
In for switch replacement but owner says he has , sometime back , got a
shock off the mains lead by touching the earth pin when just unplugged
from
the mains.
I told him probably static discharge rather than anything to do with mains
,
but explored , just in case.
The large conventional type mains transformer is mounted on a metal plate
that is held to the wood of the casing by 4 bolts. There is no earth strap
,
or ever has been , to this plate or transformer frame, so not earthed. The
4
bolts are exposed through casing on base of the amp. Hum issue if earth
strap put in place ?

Most consumer-grade amps have two-prong plugs, so what are you going to
earth it to? The ground in such an amp is always relative, often the CT on
the power transformer itself or back end of the bridge rectifier, quite
possibly floating a few volts away from earth ground. It must be rare
enough to satisfy regulators that the mains transformer fails open circuit
but shorted to the case.

If the unit has a three prong plug, I'd say give a ground strap a try if
you're concerned... most power trannies are bolted onto a metal case, not
wood, and the case is grounded in the case of a three prong plug. Ground
loop noise problems would depend quite a lot on the grounding scheme used in
the amp, i.e. whether or not power and signal grounds are appropriately
isolated to minimize interference.

Dave

Safety issue ? -Phonic Power Pod 1062,mixer amp, from 2002
 

Dave wrote in message
news:Bbf%j.235$i74.16@edtnps91...

"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
In for switch replacement but owner says he has , sometime back , got a
shock off the mains lead by touching the earth pin when just unplugged
from
the mains.
I told him probably static discharge rather than anything to do with
mains
,
but explored , just in case.
The large conventional type mains transformer is mounted on a metal
plate
that is held to the wood of the casing by 4 bolts. There is no earth
strap
,
or ever has been , to this plate or transformer frame, so not earthed.
The
4
bolts are exposed through casing on base of the amp. Hum issue if earth
strap put in place ?

Most consumer-grade amps have two-prong plugs, so what are you going to
earth it to? The ground in such an amp is always relative, often the CT
on
the power transformer itself or back end of the bridge rectifier, quite
possibly floating a few volts away from earth ground. It must be rare
enough to satisfy regulators that the mains transformer fails open circuit
but shorted to the case.

If the unit has a three prong plug, I'd say give a ground strap a try if
you're concerned... most power trannies are bolted onto a metal case, not
wood, and the case is grounded in the case of a three prong plug. Ground
loop noise problems would depend quite a lot on the grounding scheme used
in
the amp, i.e. whether or not power and signal grounds are appropriately
isolated to minimize interference.

Dave


240V , UK use.
There is just the input ground wire to the plate housing the mains fuse
holder. There is no specific bond wire to the main PA just relying on metal
brackets/spacers and self-tap screws "bonding" back to the inlet plate.


--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

Safety issue ? -Phonic Power Pod 1062,mixer amp, from 2002
 

Dave wrote in message
news:Bbf%j.235$i74.16@edtnps91...

"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
In for switch replacement but owner says he has , sometime back , got a
shock off the mains lead by touching the earth pin when just unplugged
from
the mains.
I told him probably static discharge rather than anything to do with
mains
,
but explored , just in case.
The large conventional type mains transformer is mounted on a metal
plate
that is held to the wood of the casing by 4 bolts. There is no earth
strap
,
or ever has been , to this plate or transformer frame, so not earthed.
The
4
bolts are exposed through casing on base of the amp. Hum issue if earth
strap put in place ?

Most consumer-grade amps have two-prong plugs, so what are you going to
earth it to? The ground in such an amp is always relative, often the CT
on
the power transformer itself or back end of the bridge rectifier, quite
possibly floating a few volts away from earth ground. It must be rare
enough to satisfy regulators that the mains transformer fails open circuit
but shorted to the case.

If the unit has a three prong plug, I'd say give a ground strap a try if
you're concerned... most power trannies are bolted onto a metal case, not
wood, and the case is grounded in the case of a three prong plug. Ground
loop noise problems would depend quite a lot on the grounding scheme used
in
the amp, i.e. whether or not power and signal grounds are appropriately
isolated to minimize interference.

Dave


240V , UK use.
There is just the input ground wire to the plate housing the mains fuse
holder. There is no specific bond wire to the main PA just relying on metal
brackets/spacers and self-tap screws "bonding" back to the inlet plate.


--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

Safety issue ? -Phonic Power Pod 1062,mixer amp, from 2002
 

N_Cook wrote:
Dave wrote in message
news:Bbf%j.235$i74.16@edtnps91...
"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
In for switch replacement but owner says he has , sometime back , got a
shock off the mains lead by touching the earth pin when just unplugged
from
the mains.
I told him probably static discharge rather than anything to do with
mains
,
but explored , just in case.
The large conventional type mains transformer is mounted on a metal
plate
that is held to the wood of the casing by 4 bolts. There is no earth
strap
,
or ever has been , to this plate or transformer frame, so not earthed.
The
4
bolts are exposed through casing on base of the amp. Hum issue if earth
strap put in place ?

Most consumer-grade amps have two-prong plugs, so what are you going to
earth it to? The ground in such an amp is always relative, often the CT
on
the power transformer itself or back end of the bridge rectifier, quite
possibly floating a few volts away from earth ground. It must be rare
enough to satisfy regulators that the mains transformer fails open circuit
but shorted to the case.

If the unit has a three prong plug, I'd say give a ground strap a try if
you're concerned... most power trannies are bolted onto a metal case, not
wood, and the case is grounded in the case of a three prong plug. Ground
loop noise problems would depend quite a lot on the grounding scheme used
in
the amp, i.e. whether or not power and signal grounds are appropriately
isolated to minimize interference.

Dave


240V , UK use.
There is just the input ground wire to the plate housing the mains fuse
holder. There is no specific bond wire to the main PA just relying on metal
brackets/spacers and self-tap screws "bonding" back to the inlet plate.


Is there a capacitor strapped across the mains switch, or the input
socket? That would account for the clout he got when touching the mains
plug pins

Ron(UK)

Safety issue ? -Phonic Power Pod 1062,mixer amp, from 2002
 

Ron(UK) wrote in message
...
N_Cook wrote:
Dave wrote in message
news:Bbf%j.235$i74.16@edtnps91...
"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
In for switch replacement but owner says he has , sometime back , got
a
shock off the mains lead by touching the earth pin when just unplugged
from
the mains.
I told him probably static discharge rather than anything to do with
mains
,
but explored , just in case.
The large conventional type mains transformer is mounted on a metal
plate
that is held to the wood of the casing by 4 bolts. There is no earth
strap
,
or ever has been , to this plate or transformer frame, so not earthed.
The
4
bolts are exposed through casing on base of the amp. Hum issue if
earth
strap put in place ?

Most consumer-grade amps have two-prong plugs, so what are you going to
earth it to? The ground in such an amp is always relative, often the
CT
on
the power transformer itself or back end of the bridge rectifier, quite
possibly floating a few volts away from earth ground. It must be rare
enough to satisfy regulators that the mains transformer fails open
circuit
but shorted to the case.

If the unit has a three prong plug, I'd say give a ground strap a try
if
you're concerned... most power trannies are bolted onto a metal case,
not
wood, and the case is grounded in the case of a three prong plug.
Ground
loop noise problems would depend quite a lot on the grounding scheme
used
in
the amp, i.e. whether or not power and signal grounds are appropriately
isolated to minimize interference.

Dave


240V , UK use.
There is just the input ground wire to the plate housing the mains fuse
holder. There is no specific bond wire to the main PA just relying on
metal
brackets/spacers and self-tap screws "bonding" back to the inlet plate.


Is there a capacitor strapped across the mains switch, or the input
socket? That would account for the clout he got when touching the mains
plug pins

Ron(UK)

There is a .47uF , 330 V polycarbonate between neutral and live on the amp
side of the mains switch which would self discharge through the transformer
in mS but nothing else except a fuse.


--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

Safety issue ? -Phonic Power Pod 1062,mixer amp, from 2002
 

Is there a capacitor strapped across the mains switch, or the input
socket? That would account for the clout he got when touching the mains
plug pins

Ron(UK)

There is a .47uF , 330 V polycarbonate between neutral and live on the amp
side of the mains switch which would self discharge through the transformer
in mS but nothing else except a fuse.

Are you sure it`s on the transformer side of the switch?

Ron

Safety issue ? -Phonic Power Pod 1062,mixer amp, from 2002
 

Ron(UK) wrote in message
...


Is there a capacitor strapped across the mains switch, or the input
socket? That would account for the clout he got when touching the mains
plug pins

Ron(UK)

There is a .47uF , 330 V polycarbonate between neutral and live on the
amp
side of the mains switch which would self discharge through the
transformer
in mS but nothing else except a fuse.

Are you sure it`s on the transformer side of the switch?

Ron


Mystery solved, yes that cap is on the mains cord side of the switch.
So what class of electric shock do you call that, high impedance , DC , of
little medical consequence in itself, but surprise effect could have
indirect consequences.


--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

Safety issue ? -Phonic Power Pod 1062,mixer amp, from 2002
 

second attempt

Ron(UK) wrote in message
...


Is there a capacitor strapped across the mains switch, or the input
socket? That would account for the clout he got when touching the mains
plug pins

Ron(UK)

There is a .47uF , 330 V polycarbonate between neutral and live on the
amp
side of the mains switch which would self discharge through the
transformer
in mS but nothing else except a fuse.

Are you sure it`s on the transformer side of the switch?

Ron


Mystery solved, yes that cap is on the mains cord side of the switch.
So what class of electric shock do you call that, high impedance , DC , of
little medical consequence in itself, but surprise effect could have
indirect consequences.


--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

Safety issue ? -Phonic Power Pod 1062,mixer amp, from 2002
 

"Ron(UK)" wrote:

Is there a capacitor strapped across the mains switch, or the input
socket? That would account for the clout he got when touching the mains
plug pins

That's what I was thinking too but it shouldn't happen by touching the earth pin
alone. Of course, likely he didn't just touch the one pin.

Graham

Safety issue ? -Phonic Power Pod 1062,mixer amp, from 2002
 

N_Cook wrote:

There is a .47uF , 330 V polycarbonate between neutral and live on the amp
side of the mains switch

Do you seriously mean POLYCARBONATE ? They are UNSAFE for across the mains use
because they have very poor pulse tolerance. It should be a safety X-type cap.

Graham

Safety issue ? -Phonic Power Pod 1062,mixer amp, from 2002
 

N_Cook wrote:

Mystery solved, yes that cap is on the mains cord side of the switch.

As suspected.


So what class of electric shock do you call that, high impedance , DC , of
little medical consequence in itself, but surprise effect could have
indirect consequences.

The IEC safety regs (60065) specify the maximum energy allowable for such
filtering caps. I forget the clause and I don't fancy looking it up right now.

Graham

Safety issue ? -Phonic Power Pod 1062,mixer amp, from 2002
 

Eeyore wrote in message
...


N_Cook wrote:

There is a .47uF , 330 V polycarbonate between neutral and live on the
amp
side of the mains switch

Do you seriously mean POLYCARBONATE ? They are UNSAFE for across the mains
use
because they have very poor pulse tolerance. It should be a safety X-type
cap.

Graham



X1 type, large yellow cased , I thought were polycarbonate but I stand
corrected. I thought the critical factor was they had to be self-healing
which could be from pulse or surge.


--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/