Hello

I have a little problem. I've got a private firm, the area which is
surrounded by a fence. I would like to light this area with twelve
500W lamps. Could one of those wind power plants http://www.solarus.pl/cenniki.php
handle it? Best regards.

wrote in message
...
Hello

I have a little problem. I've got a private firm, the area which is
surrounded by a fence. I would like to light this area with twelve
500W lamps. Could one of those wind power plants
http://www.solarus.pl/cenniki.php
handle it? Best regards.




What do you mean by 500 Watt lamps? If you want to use wind power you
really want to be looking for the most efficient form of lighting first.

Gareth.

wrote in message
...
Hello

I have a little problem. I've got a private firm, the area which is
surrounded by a fence. I would like to light this area with twelve
500W lamps. Could one of those wind power plants
http://www.solarus.pl/cenniki.php
handle it? Best regards.

Well, I guess that the 10kW one could, with a bit to spare, assuming that
it's going to be located on top of a mountain in Scotland ... :-)

Arfa

Its a bit more complicated than just hooking a generator up to a lamp and
waiting for wind. Uunless you want unreliable variable brightness whenever
mother nature feels like giving it to you.

Think of it this way. You want to operate a 6000W load for say 8 hours,
thats 48kWh of energy you need to store and deliver on demand. So now you
need a battery pack that can hold that much energy and a power converter to
charge it and convert it back to whatever your lamps need (wise to use 12VDC
lamps and avoid an inverter alltogether). If all you wanted was one hour of
12V lighting then that 6000W will need a 500Ah battery and for 8 hours you
need 2000Ah of battery capacity. Thats probably what 2-4 car batteries to
be safe (my guess).

Now you need to be able to charge that battery during the daytime before you
turn the lamps on and any more wind you get at night can reduce that
requirement by a fraction. a 5KW generator running at peak power (quite
breezy) will charge that battery bank in 9.6 hours of continuous wind. a
10kW generator in half the time but requiring more wind force.

Derate that whole calculation by the reliability of your wind. or that
fraction of the average day when enough wind is present to operate the
windmill at peak power.

So it all depends on how long you want the lights on and how reliable the
wind is at that location. If it is unreliable and you want 12 hours of
light, you will need a 15kW generator for par. A bigger battery pack and a
fair start with a full charge will extend lighting time for occasional
windless days and nights but on average you need to replenish 110% of the
power you deliver to the load with newly generated power (10% estimated for
losses in conversion). A similar process is used to evaluate PV as well.

500W of incandescent or halogen lighting is inefficient, ballasted halide or
fluorescent lighting (anything called high efficiency or HE) will put out as
many lumens for less watts. When evaluating the best type of lamp consider
the lumens par watt, bulb lifetime and compatibility of the bulb voltage
with your system voltage. Some lighting has a turn on surge current rating
you need to account for at some level of the design






wrote in message
...
Hello

I have a little problem. I've got a private firm, the area which is
surrounded by a fence. I would like to light this area with twelve
500W lamps. Could one of those wind power plants
http://www.solarus.pl/cenniki.php
handle it? Best regards.

"pipedown" wrote in message
t...
Its a bit more complicated than just hooking a generator up to a lamp and
waiting for wind. Uunless you want unreliable variable brightness
whenever mother nature feels like giving it to you.

Think of it this way. You want to operate a 6000W load for say 8 hours,
thats 48kWh of energy you need to store and deliver on demand. So now you
need a battery pack that can hold that much energy and a power converter
to charge it and convert it back to whatever your lamps need (wise to use
12VDC lamps and avoid an inverter alltogether). If all you wanted was one
hour of 12V lighting then that 6000W will need a 500Ah battery and for 8
hours you need 2000Ah of battery capacity. Thats probably what 2-4 car
batteries to be safe (my guess).



It's a lot more than that. A typical deep cycle marine/RV battery is about
80Ah. Fortunately the battery only needs to have enough capacity to carry
over during times when there isn't adequate wind.



500W of incandescent or halogen lighting is inefficient, ballasted halide
or fluorescent lighting (anything called high efficiency or HE) will put
out as many lumens for less watts. When evaluating the best type of lamp
consider the lumens par watt, bulb lifetime and compatibility of the bulb
voltage with your system voltage. Some lighting has a turn on surge
current rating you need to account for at some level of the design




Usage pattern also needs to be taken into consideration. HID lamps (of which
metal halide is one) don't like to be power cycled. They take several
minutes to warm up, and if shut off, need several minutes to cool down
before they will restart.

pipedown wrote:
Its a bit more complicated than just hooking a generator up to a lamp and
waiting for wind. Uunless you want unreliable variable brightness whenever
mother nature feels like giving it to you.

Think of it this way. You want to operate a 6000W load for say 8 hours,
thats 48kWh of energy you need to store and deliver on demand. So now you
need a battery pack that can hold that much energy and a power converter to
charge it and convert it back to whatever your lamps need (wise to use 12VDC
lamps and avoid an inverter alltogether). If all you wanted was one hour of
12V lighting then that 6000W will need a 500Ah battery and for 8 hours you
need 2000Ah of battery capacity. Thats probably what 2-4 car batteries to
be safe (my guess).

Now you need to be able to charge that battery during the daytime before you
turn the lamps on and any more wind you get at night can reduce that
requirement by a fraction. a 5KW generator running at peak power (quite
breezy) will charge that battery bank in 9.6 hours of continuous wind. a
10kW generator in half the time but requiring more wind force.


If the site has utility power available, you can use that for times when
the wind is not blowing, store a smaller amount dictated by the
economics of said storage; and sell the excess to the utility once that
storage capacity is filled. IOW, you don't have to have 100% storage
capacity on-site. The utility is, in effect, your storage, since you
are selling them power when you don't need it, and buying it back from
them when you do.

At least you can do this in the US. I don't know if the UK has a
similar program.

jak

"pipedown" wrote in news:%vsNj.1821$pS4.1264
@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net:

wise to use 12VDC
lamps and avoid an inverter alltogether)

Unless the runs to the lamps are long, in which case IR losses would be
much higher(or cable costs higher)
at 12 V than 110 V.




--
bz

please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an
infinite set.

remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap

"bz" wrote in message
98.139...
"pipedown" wrote in news:%vsNj.1821$pS4.1264
@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net:

wise to use 12VDC
lamps and avoid an inverter alltogether)

Unless the runs to the lamps are long, in which case IR losses would be
much higher(or cable costs higher)
at 12 V than 110 V.



Even short runs at those power levels would have unacceptable losses unless
you used massive copper welding cable or something.

In article P4LNj.6846$eg2.598@trndny06, "James Sweet" wrote:


"bz" wrote in message
. 198.139...
"pipedown" wrote in news:%vsNj.1821$pS4.1264
@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net:

wise to use 12VDC
lamps and avoid an inverter alltogether)

Unless the runs to the lamps are long, in which case IR losses would be
much higher(or cable costs higher)
at 12 V than 110 V.



Even short runs at those power levels would have unacceptable losses unless
you used massive copper welding cable or something.

The orginal poster must have spammed the groups. Stop this thread, allthough
its interesting. Lets see, the poster also used the group alt.obituaries
I thought it was weird when the poster never came back, so I searched Google Groups.


greg