Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

My might as well. Your 'english' doesn't make much sense.


See what happens when you've got a family member in the hospital for
major surgery? :( At least the surgery is over, and they have been
moved to the ICU.

It was supposed to read: You might as well. Your 'english' doesn't
make much sense.



--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

On Feb 27, 6:43 pm, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:12:47 -0800 (PST), James Arthur wrote:
On Feb 27, 9:35 am, "Frithiof Andreas Jensen" wrote:

[...]

What people *should* be watching is the price of Wheat, Soy Beans e.t.c.
because that is where trouble will come from. In the middle east, India and
Pakistan people are going from being middle class to having to choose
between heating and eating! China has enacted price controls - *ensuring* a
shortage (maybe they will shoot some farmers to get the point across that it
is well to produce at a loss)

You can thank the biofuel craze for that. Planting for burning drives
up food from supply *and* demand sides, plus all the downstream
products--and in other countries--too.

Unintended consequences:

1. Al Gore sounds alarm
2. biofuel craze
3. farmers grow feedstock for cars instead of people

Results:
4. Human misery increased
a. inflation, locally
b. food becomes unaffordable in Mexico and Haiti
c. people starve

5. Environment not improved
a. replacement food grown, appallingly inefficiently
b. net CO2 emissions increase

Best wishes,
James Arthur

So they gave the Nobel Peace Prize to a mass murderer.

John

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22902512/

Intentions are fine, but one has to consider one's actions carefully.
"Activists" sometimes fall a little short in this department.

Cheers,
James Arthur

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

Jim Thompson wrote:

http://www.marke****ch.com/news/stor...%7D&siteid=rss

Feb. 26, 2008

.................................................. ................................................

As the broader market began to regain lost ground, crude prices for
April delivery gained 2.3% to a new high of $101.11 a barrel on the
New York Mercantile Exchange, surpassing crude's last record of
$100.65 hit last week.


Or, the dollar drops to $101.11 per barrel. That's about 66.96 EU/
barrel. There's a good change that if you offered to settle in Euros,
most oil producers would quote you a better rate than that.

--
Paul Hovnanian
------------------------------------------------------------------
Life is like an analogy.

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...
Martin Griffith wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:30:44 -0800, in sci.electronics.design "Jim
Thompson" wrote:


"Martin Griffith" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:22:32 -0800 (PST), in sci.electronics.design
James Arthur wrote:

"Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to
live at the expense of everybody else." - Claude F. Bastiat
(1801-1850)

Cheers,
James Arthur
That quote is worthy of Mencken :)

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida



What's your problem retard boy? The whole country replied to my posts,
Jealous? lonely? Maybe you should return to Iraq and be killed. BTW - You
have not served your country, you basically served the daemon.


...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et
|
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASICK's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 |
|
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Rat ******* |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

America: Land of the Freedom Abusers, Because of the Rat *******s.

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

"David L. Jones" wrote in message
...
On Feb 28, 12:33 pm, "Jerry G." wrote:
It is very likely, the crude oil price per barrel may get up to about
$120 to $140 by the mid or end of the summer. The reasons are many.
This means that the price of fuel will most likely rise by at least
another 20%.

So why didn't the petrol price go up 700% since oil was $15 back in
1999?
As you say, the reasons are many, but one thing is for sure, petrol
prices have had very little in the way of linear correlation with oil
price.

Dave.



Hey Dave you are already right there, depending on how you look at it.

($15/b * 700%)/100 = $105/b

PS. Every one of you are being affected except me and the one I have chosen
to help.


...Jim Thompson


--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et
|
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASICK's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 |
|
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Rat ******* |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

America: Land of the Freedom Abusers, Because of the Rat *******s.

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...
Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 03:51:48 GMT, Vladimir Vassilevsky
wrote:



John Larkin wrote:


We have something they don't: an enormous capacity to make food.

Don't worry. They will eat you up.


Well, just think about the negotiation sessions:

"We have food. You have oil. Wanna do business?"

What business? What oil? The oil it what Iraq is intended for.



What logic?

I don't see any logic either. If the Iraq is colonized, then why the oil
is $101.11 ?

What syntax?

Should learn hispanic?


My might as well. Your 'english' doesn't make much sense.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida



Why are your replying to my thread then dummy? Can't help it Hugh?


...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et
|
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASICK's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 |
|
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Rat ******* |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

America: Land of the Freedom Abusers, Because of the Rat *******s.

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

"Paul Hovnanian P.E." wrote in message
...
Jim Thompson wrote:

http://www.marke****ch.com/news/stor...%7D&siteid=rss

Feb. 26, 2008

.................................................. ................................................

As the broader market began to regain lost ground, crude prices for
April delivery gained 2.3% to a new high of $101.11 a barrel on the
New York Mercantile Exchange, surpassing crude's last record of
$100.65 hit last week.


Or, the dollar drops to $101.11 per barrel. That's about 66.96 EU/
barrel. There's a good change that if you offered to settle in Euros,
most oil producers would quote you a better rate than that.

--
Paul Hovnanian
------------------------------------------------------------------
Life is like an analogy.



That's the right way to look at the transition. In 2003 the EURO makers
said they will beat US because they hated Bush's arrogant act on Iraq, they
pushed to Arabic countries to use EURO as their standard currency. US
over-spent in every corner, that adds up to the mountain of fire.


...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et
|
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASICK's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 |
|
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Rat ******* |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

America: Land of the Freedom Abusers, Because of the Rat *******s believe
in the daemon.

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

Don Klipstein wrote:
In ,
James Arthur wrote:

on food price inflation

You can thank the biofuel craze for that. Planting for burning drives
up food from supply *and* demand sides, plus all the downstream
products--and in other countries--too.

Unintended consequences:

1. Al Gore sounds alarm
2. biofuel craze
3. farmers grow feedstock for cars instead of people

Results:
4. Human misery increased
a. inflation, locally
b. food becomes unaffordable in Mexico and Haiti
c. people starve

5. Environment not improved
a. replacement food grown, appallingly inefficiently
b. net CO2 emissions increase

I don't see 5b being true. The food plants is are replaced from carbon
already in the environment. If this achieves any reduction in consumption
in fossil fuels, then it achieves a decrease in transfer of carbon from
the lithosphere to the atmosphere, biosphere and hydrosphere.

- Don Klipstein )

Check out whether leaving the non-product parts of the plants just lying
there versus plowing it under has the best carbon sequestration result.

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

On Feb 27, 8:28 pm, Vladimir Vassilevsky
wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 03:51:48 GMT, Vladimir Vassilevsky
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

We have something they don't: an enormous capacity to make food.

Don't worry. They will eat you up.

Well, just think about the negotiation sessions:

"We have food. You have oil. Wanna do business?"

What business? What oil? The oil it what Iraq is intended for.

What logic?

I don't see any logic either. If the Iraq is colonized, then why the oil
is $101.11 ?

Perhaps because:
(1)
It was colonized by and army controlled by those who profit from high
oil prices.

(2)
Those who colonized it screwed up badly.

(3)
High oil prices were ordained by God and thus nothing can prevent
them.

(4)
China and India etc sudden;t discovered what a nice thing cars are.


What syntax?

Should learn hispanic?

VLV

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 22:21:53 -0800 (PST), James Arthur
wrote:

On Feb 27, 6:43 pm, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:12:47 -0800 (PST), James Arthur wrote:
On Feb 27, 9:35 am, "Frithiof Andreas Jensen" wrote:

[...]

What people *should* be watching is the price of Wheat, Soy Beans e.t.c.
because that is where trouble will come from. In the middle east, India and
Pakistan people are going from being middle class to having to choose
between heating and eating! China has enacted price controls - *ensuring* a
shortage (maybe they will shoot some farmers to get the point across that it
is well to produce at a loss)

You can thank the biofuel craze for that. Planting for burning drives
up food from supply *and* demand sides, plus all the downstream
products--and in other countries--too.

Unintended consequences:

1. Al Gore sounds alarm
2. biofuel craze
3. farmers grow feedstock for cars instead of people

Results:
4. Human misery increased
a. inflation, locally
b. food becomes unaffordable in Mexico and Haiti
c. people starve

5. Environment not improved
a. replacement food grown, appallingly inefficiently
b. net CO2 emissions increase

Best wishes,
James Arthur

So they gave the Nobel Peace Prize to a mass murderer.

John

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22902512/

Intentions are fine, but one has to consider one's actions carefully.
"Activists" sometimes fall a little short in this department.

Cheers,
James Arthur


"At the market in the La Saline slum, two cups of rice now sell for 60
cents, up 10 cents from December and 50 percent from a year ago."

That's tragic. At the upscale Safeway down the street, I can get
premium-quality jasmine rice for about 40 cents a pound.

John

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

MooseFET wrote:

On Feb 27, 8:28 pm, Vladimir Vassilevsky
wrote:


If the Iraq is colonized, then why the oil
is $101.11 ?


Perhaps because:
(1)
It was colonized by and army controlled by those who profit from high
oil prices.
(2)
Those who colonized it screwed up badly.

I think the problem is fundamental: the $101.11 is what happens if you
try to do the things by brute force. This turns out to be very
inefficient due to many reasons, including what you mentioned.
It would be nice if the natives pump the oil by themselves, voluntarily
and happily; that's what that propaganda about the democratic Iraq is
for. It could be possible to set up the new Saddam, however the tough
guy can run out of control and you will have to start all over again.
A deadlock situation.

(3)
High oil prices were ordained by God and thus nothing can prevent
them.

(4)
China and India etc sudden;t discovered what a nice thing cars are.

China and India dicovered that they are the people also. So they are
going to set their rules.


VLV

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 22:28:02 -0600, Vladimir Vassilevsky
wrote:



John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 03:51:48 GMT, Vladimir Vassilevsky
wrote:



John Larkin wrote:


We have something they don't: an enormous capacity to make food.

Don't worry. They will eat you up.


Well, just think about the negotiation sessions:

"We have food. You have oil. Wanna do business?"

What business? What oil? The oil it what Iraq is intended for.



What logic?

I don't see any logic either. If the Iraq is colonized, then why the oil
is $101.11 ?


What's your definition of "colonizied"? It sure must be different from
mine.




What syntax?

Should learn hispanic?

Should learn *some* language that makes sense.

Is "hiapanic" a language?

John

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

On Feb 27, 10:21*pm, James Arthur wrote:
On Feb 27, 6:43 pm, John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:12:47 -0800 (PST), James Arthur *wrote:
On Feb 27, 9:35 am, "Frithiof Andreas Jensen" wrote:

[...]





What people *should* be watching is the price of Wheat, Soy Beans e.t..c.
because that is where trouble will come from. In the middle east, India and
Pakistan people are going from being middle class to having to choose
between heating and eating! China has enacted price controls - *ensuring* a
shortage (maybe they will shoot some farmers to get the point across that it
is well to produce at a loss)

You can thank the biofuel craze for that. *Planting for burning drives
up food from supply *and* demand sides, plus all the downstream
products--and in other countries--too.

Unintended consequences:

1. Al Gore sounds alarm
2. biofuel craze
3. farmers grow feedstock for cars instead of people

Results:
4. Human misery increased
* a. inflation, locally
* b. food becomes unaffordable in Mexico and Haiti
* c. people starve

5. Environment not improved
* a. replacement food grown, appallingly inefficiently
* b. net CO2 emissions increase

Best wishes,
James Arthur

So they gave the Nobel Peace Prize to a mass murderer.

John

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22902512/

Intentions are fine, but one has to consider one's actions carefully.
"Activists" sometimes fall a little short in this department.

I don't know who actually said it, and that means we give it to Ben
Franklin:

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions." -- BF


"Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its
victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under
robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber
baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be
satiated; but those who torment us for own good will torment us
without end, for they do so with the approval of their own
conscience." - C.S. Lewis, God in the Dock

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

"John Larkin" skrev i en
meddelelse ...

So they gave the Nobel Peace Prize to a mass murderer.

John


The Peace Price lost all credibility when they gave it to Yassir Arafat!

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

"Jim Thompson" wrote:


http://www.marke****ch.com/news/stor...%7D&siteid=rss

Feb. 26, 2008

................................................. .................................................

As the broader market began to regain lost ground, crude prices for
April delivery gained 2.3% to a new high of $101.11 a barrel on the
New York Mercantile Exchange, surpassing crude's last record of
$100.65 hit last week.


Some people think the imminent downfall of the US economy is going be
a much bigger problem. The mortgage crisis is just the beginning. I
sure hope the next president has more sense. China and other countries
have huge amounts of dollars. If the dollar is sinking deeper, they
will eventually cut their loss and dump their dollars at any price.

There is also good news: over here in euro-country the low dollar
compensates the high oil prices a bit.

--
Programmeren in Almere?
E-mail naar nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

On Feb 27, 3:25*pm, James Arthur wrote:
On Feb 27, 3:10 pm, (Don Klipstein) wrote:





In ,

James Arthur wrote:

on food price inflation

You can thank the biofuel craze for that. *Planting for burning drives
up food from supply *and* demand sides, plus all the downstream
products--and in other countries--too.

Unintended consequences:

1. Al Gore sounds alarm
2. biofuel craze
3. farmers grow feedstock for cars instead of people

Results:
4. Human misery increased
* a. inflation, locally
* b. food becomes unaffordable in Mexico and Haiti
* c. people starve

5. Environment not improved
* a. replacement food grown, appallingly inefficiently
* b. net CO2 emissions increase

* I don't see 5b being true. *The food plants is are replaced from carbon
already in the environment. *If this achieves any reduction in consumption
in fossil fuels, then it achieves a decrease in transfer of carbon from
the lithosphere to the atmosphere, biosphere and hydrosphere.

*- Don Klipstein )

There was a paper out recently on that.

The problem not previously considered is that any food not grown here
has to be replaced. *That means it has to be grown somewhere else,
generally under more primitive conditions (e.g. slash & burn (shudder)
or just otherwise less efficiently).

Since the planting-for-biofuel barely yields more than it consumes in
tractor fuel, etc., to start with, any overall loss in efficiency
results in net increased emissions. *So say the paper's authors,
anyhow.

Cheers,
James Arthur- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What about using kelp (seaweed) for bio-fuel? The ocean is cheap real
estate and you don't have irrigation problems, mostly just transport
problems. All you have to do is harvest the kelp and turn it into
methane gas.

-Bill

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

In ,
James Arthur wrote:

On Feb 27, 3:10 pm, (Don Klipstein) wrote:
In ,

James Arthur wrote:

on food price inflation


You can thank the biofuel craze for that. Planting for burning drives
up food from supply *and* demand sides, plus all the downstream
products--and in other countries--too.

Unintended consequences:

1. Al Gore sounds alarm
2. biofuel craze
3. farmers grow feedstock for cars instead of people

Results:
4. Human misery increased
a. inflation, locally
b. food becomes unaffordable in Mexico and Haiti
c. people starve

5. Environment not improved
a. replacement food grown, appallingly inefficiently
b. net CO2 emissions increase

I don't see 5b being true. The food plants is are replaced from carbon
already in the environment. If this achieves any reduction in consumption
in fossil fuels, then it achieves a decrease in transfer of carbon from
the lithosphere to the atmosphere, biosphere and hydrosphere.

- Don Klipstein )

There was a paper out recently on that.

The problem not previously considered is that any food not grown here
has to be replaced. That means it has to be grown somewhere else,
generally under more primitive conditions (e.g. slash & burn (shudder)
or just otherwise less efficiently).

Since the planting-for-biofuel barely yields more than it consumes in
tractor fuel, etc., to start with, any overall loss in efficiency
results in net increased emissions. So say the paper's authors,
anyhow.

The way I hear it, a Cornell study made calculations assuming all
ethanol comes from corn grown on fields requiring irrigation, which is
only 15% of all American corn.

It appears to me that the valid points against biofuels are mainly on
bidding food prices higher.

- Don Klipstein )

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

On Feb 28, 10:43 am, Simon S Aysdie wrote:
On Feb 27, 10:21 pm, James Arthur wrote:

[...]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22902512/

Intentions are fine, but one has to consider one's actions carefully.
"Activists" sometimes fall a little short in this department.

I don't know who actually said it, and that means we give it to Ben
Franklin:

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions." -- BF

No. The road to hell is paved with ... your tax dollars.

Cheers,
James Arthur

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

On Feb 28, 1:48 pm, Bill Bowden wrote:
On Feb 27, 3:25 pm, James Arthur wrote:

[...]

The problem not previously considered is that any food not grown here
has to be replaced. That means it has to be grown somewhere else,
generally under more primitive conditions (e.g. slash & burn (shudder)
or just otherwise less efficiently).

Since the planting-for-biofuel barely yields more than it consumes in
tractor fuel, etc., to start with, any overall loss in efficiency
results in net increased emissions. So say the paper's authors,
anyhow.

Cheers,
James Arthur

What about using kelp (seaweed) for bio-fuel? The ocean is cheap real
estate and you don't have irrigation problems, mostly just transport
problems. All you have to do is harvest the kelp and turn it into
methane gas.

-Bill

Hi Bill !
1. Trashes marine habitat
2. Seaweed *is* food. Good, too.
3. Can't speak to the energy content or growth rate, but it's
underwater, gets a lot less sun, so I'd not expect these to be
attractive.
4. Is it easily fermented to methane? Most things aren't.

Hey, here's an idea--why not just get *smaller* cars, and drive them
*less!* That works with zero technical risk, current technology,
saves money and saves the planet. ;-)

Cheers,
James

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

On Feb 28, 1:33 pm, (Nico Coesel) wrote:
"Jim Thompson" wrote:

http://www.marke****ch.com/news/stor...7B40D68525%2DB...

Feb. 26, 2008

................................................. .................................................

As the broader market began to regain lost ground, crude prices for
April delivery gained 2.3% to a new high of $101.11 a barrel on the
New York Mercantile Exchange, surpassing crude's last record of
$100.65 hit last week.

Some people think the imminent downfall of the US economy is going be
a much bigger problem. The mortgage crisis is just the beginning. I
sure hope the next president has more sense. China and other countries
have huge amounts of dollars.

Rumors of our demise have been greatly exaggerated. (with apologies
to Mark Twain)

If the dollar is sinking deeper, they
will eventually cut their loss and dump their dollars at any price.

Not likely. Old saying: "If you owe the bank $100k and can't pay,
you've got a problem. If you owe the bank $100M and can't pay, the
_bank_ has a problem."

Cheers,
James Arthur

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

On Feb 28, 3:12 pm, (Don Klipstein) wrote:
In ,



James Arthur wrote:
On Feb 27, 3:10 pm, (Don Klipstein) wrote:
In ,

James Arthur wrote:

on food price inflation

You can thank the biofuel craze for that. Planting for burning drives
up food from supply *and* demand sides, plus all the downstream
products--and in other countries--too.

Unintended consequences:

1. Al Gore sounds alarm
2. biofuel craze
3. farmers grow feedstock for cars instead of people

Results:
4. Human misery increased
a. inflation, locally
b. food becomes unaffordable in Mexico and Haiti
c. people starve

5. Environment not improved
a. replacement food grown, appallingly inefficiently
b. net CO2 emissions increase

I don't see 5b being true. The food plants is are replaced from carbon
already in the environment. If this achieves any reduction in consumption
in fossil fuels, then it achieves a decrease in transfer of carbon from
the lithosphere to the atmosphere, biosphere and hydrosphere.

- Don Klipstein )

There was a paper out recently on that.

The problem not previously considered is that any food not grown here
has to be replaced. That means it has to be grown somewhere else,
generally under more primitive conditions (e.g. slash & burn (shudder)
or just otherwise less efficiently).

Since the planting-for-biofuel barely yields more than it consumes in
tractor fuel, etc., to start with, any overall loss in efficiency
results in net increased emissions. So say the paper's authors,
anyhow.

The way I hear it, a Cornell study made calculations assuming all
ethanol comes from corn grown on fields requiring irrigation, which is
only 15% of all American corn.

It appears to me that the valid points against biofuels are mainly on
bidding food prices higher.

- Don Klipstein )

It is clear that food not grown here is going to have to be replaced--
grown elsewhere. And, those new farmers will have to clear land &
destroy habitat to do that. (I suppose that should've been 5c.:
destruction of forest / grasslands / habitat.)

Since ours is among the most productive farmland in the world, chances
are the new land will be less fertile. And so it'll take more land
area and more work and tractor fuel, on average, to yield the same
crop.

And the replacement's agricultural practices aren't likely to be as
advanced and efficient as ours in general.

What the total affect of those factors is, I haven't calculated; I was
just passing on that link (to the fellows who have, who estimate
ethanol's net effect is to double CO2 emissions).

Best wishes,
James Arthur

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

On Feb 28, 3:22*pm, James Arthur wrote:
On Feb 28, 1:48 pm, Bill Bowden wrote:

On Feb 27, 3:25 pm, James Arthur wrote:

[...]





The problem not previously considered is that any food not grown here
has to be replaced. *That means it has to be grown somewhere else,
generally under more primitive conditions (e.g. slash & burn (shudder)
or just otherwise less efficiently).

Since the planting-for-biofuel barely yields more than it consumes in
tractor fuel, etc., to start with, any overall loss in efficiency
results in net increased emissions. *So say the paper's authors,
anyhow.

Cheers,
James Arthur

What about using kelp (seaweed) for bio-fuel? The ocean is cheap real
estate and you don't have irrigation problems, mostly just transport
problems. All you have to do is harvest the kelp and turn it into
methane gas.

-Bill

Hi Bill !
1. Trashes marine habitat
2. Seaweed *is* food. *Good, too.
3. Can't speak to the energy content or growth rate, but it's
underwater, gets a lot less sun, so I'd not expect these to be
attractive.
4. Is it easily fermented to methane? *Most things aren't.

Hey, here's an idea--why not just get *smaller* cars, and drive them
*less!* *That works with zero technical risk, current technology,
saves money and saves the planet. *;-)

Cheers,
James- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The Japaneese are working on the problem. Apparently, they can get
about 20 milliliters of gas from a ton of seeweed.

Here's a link:

http://web-japan.org/trends/science/sci060824.html

As for smaller cars, we could just ride motorcycles that get 100 MPG.
But I was thinking the other day, it would be nice if the busses ran
every 10 minutes along all the major roads. Probably reduce the
traffic 80 percent, and we can always use a car if there's a lot to
carry, or in a hurry, or afraid of motorcycles.

-Bill

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

On Feb 28, 6:15*pm, Bill Bowden wrote:
On Feb 28, 3:22*pm, James Arthur wrote:





On Feb 28, 1:48 pm, Bill Bowden wrote:

On Feb 27, 3:25 pm, James Arthur wrote:

[...]

The problem not previously considered is that any food not grown here
has to be replaced. *That means it has to be grown somewhere else,
generally under more primitive conditions (e.g. slash & burn (shudder)
or just otherwise less efficiently).

Since the planting-for-biofuel barely yields more than it consumes in
tractor fuel, etc., to start with, any overall loss in efficiency
results in net increased emissions. *So say the paper's authors,
anyhow.

Cheers,
James Arthur

What about using kelp (seaweed) for bio-fuel? The ocean is cheap real
estate and you don't have irrigation problems, mostly just transport
problems. All you have to do is harvest the kelp and turn it into
methane gas.

-Bill

Hi Bill !
1. Trashes marine habitat
2. Seaweed *is* food. *Good, too.
3. Can't speak to the energy content or growth rate, but it's
underwater, gets a lot less sun, so I'd not expect these to be
attractive.
4. Is it easily fermented to methane? *Most things aren't.

Hey, here's an idea--why not just get *smaller* cars, and drive them
*less!* *That works with zero technical risk, current technology,
saves money and saves the planet. *;-)

Cheers,
James- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The Japaneese are working on the problem. Apparently, they can get
about 20 milliliters of gas from a ton of seeweed.

Here's a link:

http://web-japan.org/trends/science/sci060824.html

As for smaller cars, we could just ride motorcycles that get 100 MPG.
But I was thinking the other day, it would be nice if the busses ran
every 10 minutes along all the major roads. Probably reduce the
traffic 80 percent, and we can always use a car if there's a lot to
carry, or in a hurry, or afraid of motorcycles.

-Bill- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Opps, that should have been Kiloliters.

-Bill

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

Jim Thompson wrote:

"Paul Hovnanian P.E." wrote in message
...
Jim Thompson wrote:

http://www.marke****ch.com/news/stor...%7D&siteid=rss

Feb. 26, 2008

.................................................. ................................................

As the broader market began to regain lost ground, crude prices for
April delivery gained 2.3% to a new high of $101.11 a barrel on the
New York Mercantile Exchange, surpassing crude's last record of
$100.65 hit last week.


Or, the dollar drops to $101.11 per barrel. That's about 66.96 EU/
barrel. There's a good change that if you offered to settle in Euros,
most oil producers would quote you a better rate than that.

--
Paul Hovnanian
------------------------------------------------------------------
Life is like an analogy.

That's the right way to look at the transition. In 2003 the EURO makers
said they will beat US because they hated Bush's arrogant act on Iraq,

Too paranoid. Put the aluminum foil hat back on.

The EU simply never allowed itself from being distracted from running
its economies and industries based on sound fiscal principles.

they pushed to Arabic countries to use EURO as their standard currency.

Wrong. OPEC will still take dollars, or a number of other currencies.
You just get quoted a different price, depending on what the demand for
your particular currency is.

Its like the marketplace in Cuba. There's the 'domestic' peso and the
convertible peso. The exchange rate on the convertible is much better
(even than official exchange rates) and, if you are fortunate enough to
have US dollars, magically, the empty shop shelves will be filled and
you become a favored customer.

The dollar is becoming to the rest of the world what the Cuban peso is
to the US dollar.

US over-spent in every corner, that adds up to the mountain of fire.

Which mountain and what fire is that?

--
Paul Hovnanian
------------------------------------------------------------------
Time's fun when you're having flies. -- Kermit the Frog

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

James Arthur wrote:

On Feb 28, 1:33 pm, (Nico Coesel) wrote:
"Jim Thompson" wrote:

http://www.marke****ch.com/news/stor...7B40D68525%2DB...

Feb. 26, 2008

................................................. .................................................

As the broader market began to regain lost ground, crude prices for
April delivery gained 2.3% to a new high of $101.11 a barrel on the
New York Mercantile Exchange, surpassing crude's last record of
$100.65 hit last week.

Some people think the imminent downfall of the US economy is going be
a much bigger problem. The mortgage crisis is just the beginning. I
sure hope the next president has more sense. China and other countries
have huge amounts of dollars.

Rumors of our demise have been greatly exaggerated. (with apologies
to Mark Twain)

If the dollar is sinking deeper, they
will eventually cut their loss and dump their dollars at any price.

Not likely. Old saying: "If you owe the bank $100k and can't pay,
you've got a problem. If you owe the bank $100M and can't pay, the
_bank_ has a problem."

Or just wait a while and $100M USD won't be that big a deal any more.

--
Paul Hovnanian
------------------------------------------------------------------
Stupidity kills. But not nearly often enough.

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

On Feb 28, 7:39 pm, "Paul Hovnanian P.E." wrote:
James Arthur wrote:

On Feb 28, 1:33 pm, (Nico Coesel) wrote:
"Jim Thompson" wrote:

http://www.marke****ch.com/news/stor...7B40D68525%2DB...

Feb. 26, 2008

................................................. .................................................

As the broader market began to regain lost ground, crude prices for
April delivery gained 2.3% to a new high of $101.11 a barrel on the
New York Mercantile Exchange, surpassing crude's last record of
$100.65 hit last week.

Some people think the imminent downfall of the US economy is going be
a much bigger problem. The mortgage crisis is just the beginning. I
sure hope the next president has more sense. China and other countries
have huge amounts of dollars.

Rumors of our demise have been greatly exaggerated. (with apologies
to Mark Twain)

If the dollar is sinking deeper, they
will eventually cut their loss and dump their dollars at any price.

Not likely. Old saying: "If you owe the bank $100k and can't pay,
you've got a problem. If you owe the bank $100M and can't pay, the
_bank_ has a problem."

Or just wait a while and $100M USD won't be that big a deal any more.

The perfect time to repay.

Cheers,
James Arthur

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

Bill Bowden wrote:
On Feb 28, 3:22 pm, James Arthur wrote:
On Feb 28, 1:48 pm, Bill Bowden wrote:

On Feb 27, 3:25 pm, James Arthur wrote:
[...]





The problem not previously considered is that any food not grown here
has to be replaced. That means it has to be grown somewhere else,
generally under more primitive conditions (e.g. slash & burn (shudder)
or just otherwise less efficiently).
Since the planting-for-biofuel barely yields more than it consumes in
tractor fuel, etc., to start with, any overall loss in efficiency
results in net increased emissions. So say the paper's authors,
anyhow.
Cheers,
James Arthur
What about using kelp (seaweed) for bio-fuel? The ocean is cheap real
estate and you don't have irrigation problems, mostly just transport
problems. All you have to do is harvest the kelp and turn it into
methane gas.
-Bill
Hi Bill !
1. Trashes marine habitat
2. Seaweed *is* food. Good, too.
3. Can't speak to the energy content or growth rate, but it's
underwater, gets a lot less sun, so I'd not expect these to be
attractive.
4. Is it easily fermented to methane? Most things aren't.

Hey, here's an idea--why not just get *smaller* cars, and drive them
*less!* That works with zero technical risk, current technology,
saves money and saves the planet. ;-)

Cheers,
James- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The Japaneese are working on the problem. Apparently, they can get
about 20 milliliters of gas from a ton of seeweed.

Here's a link:

http://web-japan.org/trends/science/sci060824.html

As for smaller cars, we could just ride motorcycles that get 100 MPG.
But I was thinking the other day, it would be nice if the busses ran
every 10 minutes along all the major roads. Probably reduce the
traffic 80 percent, and we can always use a car if there's a lot to
carry, or in a hurry, or afraid of motorcycles.

-Bill

So, do you ride a motorcycle? Or use buses or trains? How often?

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

Simon S Aysdie wrote:
On Feb 27, 10:21 pm, James Arthur wrote:
On Feb 27, 6:43 pm, John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:12:47 -0800 (PST), James Arthur wrote:
On Feb 27, 9:35 am, "Frithiof Andreas Jensen" wrote:
[...]





What people *should* be watching is the price of Wheat, Soy Beans e.t.c.
because that is where trouble will come from. In the middle east, India and
Pakistan people are going from being middle class to having to choose
between heating and eating! China has enacted price controls - *ensuring* a
shortage (maybe they will shoot some farmers to get the point across that it
is well to produce at a loss)
You can thank the biofuel craze for that. Planting for burning drives
up food from supply *and* demand sides, plus all the downstream
products--and in other countries--too.
Unintended consequences:
1. Al Gore sounds alarm
2. biofuel craze
3. farmers grow feedstock for cars instead of people
Results:
4. Human misery increased
a. inflation, locally
b. food becomes unaffordable in Mexico and Haiti
c. people starve
5. Environment not improved
a. replacement food grown, appallingly inefficiently
b. net CO2 emissions increase
Best wishes,
James Arthur
So they gave the Nobel Peace Prize to a mass murderer.
John
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22902512/

Intentions are fine, but one has to consider one's actions carefully.
"Activists" sometimes fall a little short in this department.

I don't know who actually said it, and that means we give it to Ben
Franklin:

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions." -- BF

I think that Dante said that, and he copied it from Epictitus.



"Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its
victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under
robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber
baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be
satiated; but those who torment us for own good will torment us
without end, for they do so with the approval of their own
conscience." - C.S. Lewis, God in the Dock


Now if you had only read and understood that book.

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

Jim Thompson wrote:
"Martin Griffith" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:22:32 -0800 (PST), in sci.electronics.design
James Arthur wrote:

"Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to
live at the expense of everybody else." - Claude F. Bastiat
(1801-1850)

Cheers,
James Arthur
That quote is worthy of Mencken :)


martin



May I disagree with you?



...Jim Thompson

Just to help us understand, give us some Mencken quotes.

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

"Paul Hovnanian P.E." wrote in message
...
Jim Thompson wrote:

"Paul Hovnanian P.E." wrote in message
...
Jim Thompson wrote:

http://www.marke****ch.com/news/stor...%7D&siteid=rss

Feb. 26, 2008

.................................................. ................................................

As the broader market began to regain lost ground, crude prices for
April delivery gained 2.3% to a new high of $101.11 a barrel on the
New York Mercantile Exchange, surpassing crude's last record of
$100.65 hit last week.


Or, the dollar drops to $101.11 per barrel. That's about 66.96 EU/
barrel. There's a good change that if you offered to settle in Euros,
most oil producers would quote you a better rate than that.

--
Paul Hovnanian
------------------------------------------------------------------
Life is like an analogy.

That's the right way to look at the transition. In 2003 the EURO makers
said they will beat US because they hated Bush's arrogant act on Iraq,

Too paranoid. Put the aluminum foil hat back on.

The EU simply never allowed itself from being distracted from running
its economies and industries based on sound fiscal principles.


--
Paul Hovnanian
------------------------------------------------------------------
Time's fun when you're having flies. -- Kermit the Frog


they pushed to Arabic countries to use EURO as their standard currency.



Wrong. OPEC will still take dollars, or a number of other currencies.
You just get quoted a different price, depending on what the demand for
your particular currency is.


Look up a dictionary for a term "Standard" Is the Dollar right now the
standard Currency of the world Dummy ? Go to Ebay, check out HongKong
items, they require EURO or Austrilian Dollar. Don't make a **** out of
yourself Stupid.

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

"Paul Hovnanian P.E." wrote in message
...
James Arthur wrote:

On Feb 28, 1:33 pm, (Nico Coesel) wrote:
"Jim Thompson" wrote:

http://www.marke****ch.com/news/stor...7B40D68525%2DB...

Feb. 26, 2008

................................................. .................................................

As the broader market began to regain lost ground, crude prices for
April delivery gained 2.3% to a new high of $101.11 a barrel on the
New York Mercantile Exchange, surpassing crude's last record of
$100.65 hit last week.

Some people think the imminent downfall of the US economy is going be
a much bigger problem. The mortgage crisis is just the beginning. I
sure hope the next president has more sense. China and other countries
have huge amounts of dollars.

Rumors of our demise have been greatly exaggerated. (with apologies
to Mark Twain)

If the dollar is sinking deeper, they
will eventually cut their loss and dump their dollars at any price.

Not likely. Old saying: "If you owe the bank $100k and can't pay,
you've got a problem. If you owe the bank $100M and can't pay, the
_bank_ has a problem."

Or just wait a while and $100M USD won't be that big a deal any more.

--
Paul Hovnanian
------------------------------------------------------------------
Stupidity kills. But not nearly often enough.



Right now $500 is no big deal. At a restaurant I paid a $100 for dinner
for 3. It used to be $35. You stupid kid have no experience in life, don't
try to be an expert ****ing Jerk.

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

"JosephKK" wrote in message
et...
Bill Bowden wrote:
On Feb 28, 3:22 pm, James Arthur wrote:
On Feb 28, 1:48 pm, Bill Bowden wrote:

On Feb 27, 3:25 pm, James Arthur wrote:
[...]





The problem not previously considered is that any food not grown here
has to be replaced. That means it has to be grown somewhere else,
generally under more primitive conditions (e.g. slash & burn (shudder)
or just otherwise less efficiently).
Since the planting-for-biofuel barely yields more than it consumes in
tractor fuel, etc., to start with, any overall loss in efficiency
results in net increased emissions. So say the paper's authors,
anyhow.
Cheers,
James Arthur
What about using kelp (seaweed) for bio-fuel? The ocean is cheap real
estate and you don't have irrigation problems, mostly just transport
problems. All you have to do is harvest the kelp and turn it into
methane gas.
-Bill
Hi Bill !
1. Trashes marine habitat
2. Seaweed *is* food. Good, too.
3. Can't speak to the energy content or growth rate, but it's
underwater, gets a lot less sun, so I'd not expect these to be
attractive.
4. Is it easily fermented to methane? Most things aren't.

Hey, here's an idea--why not just get *smaller* cars, and drive them
*less!* That works with zero technical risk, current technology,
saves money and saves the planet. ;-)

Cheers,
James- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The Japaneese are working on the problem. Apparently, they can get
about 20 milliliters of gas from a ton of seeweed.

Here's a link:

http://web-japan.org/trends/science/sci060824.html

As for smaller cars, we could just ride motorcycles that get 100 MPG.
But I was thinking the other day, it would be nice if the busses ran
every 10 minutes along all the major roads. Probably reduce the
traffic 80 percent, and we can always use a car if there's a lot to
carry, or in a hurry, or afraid of motorcycles.

-Bill

So, do you ride a motorcycle? Or use buses or trains? How often?


Don't warn him, let him get hurt and let him find the truth the hard way. I
already checked with the motorcyclists. They said they're getting 28-30MPG
on highway. There is no such thing 100MPG motorcycle.

America loves to jump to conclusion on everything from Economy to WDM's.
This time you're going to get hurt badly.

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

Jim Thompson wrote:
"David L. Jones" wrote in message
...
On Feb 28, 12:33 pm, "Jerry G." wrote:
It is very likely, the crude oil price per barrel may get up to about
$120 to $140 by the mid or end of the summer. The reasons are many.
This means that the price of fuel will most likely rise by at least
another 20%.
So why didn't the petrol price go up 700% since oil was $15 back in
1999?
As you say, the reasons are many, but one thing is for sure, petrol
prices have had very little in the way of linear correlation with oil
price.

Dave.



Hey Dave you are already right there, depending on how you look at it.

($15/b * 700%)/100 = $105/b

PS. Every one of you are being affected except me and the one I have chosen
to help.


...Jim Thompson



What a blazing idiot. You are so obvious from the content of your
forgeries. Who has to look at the headers any more. Go away forever.

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

Jim Thompson wrote:
"Paul Hovnanian P.E." wrote in message
...
Jim Thompson wrote:
http://www.marke****ch.com/news/stor...%7D&siteid=rss

Feb. 26, 2008

.................................................. ................................................

As the broader market began to regain lost ground, crude prices for
April delivery gained 2.3% to a new high of $101.11 a barrel on the
New York Mercantile Exchange, surpassing crude's last record of
$100.65 hit last week.

Or, the dollar drops to $101.11 per barrel. That's about 66.96 EU/
barrel. There's a good change that if you offered to settle in Euros,
most oil producers would quote you a better rate than that.

--
Paul Hovnanian
------------------------------------------------------------------
Life is like an analogy.



That's the right way to look at the transition. In 2003 the EURO makers
said they will beat US because they hated Bush's arrogant act on Iraq, they
pushed to Arabic countries to use EURO as their standard currency. US
over-spent in every corner, that adds up to the mountain of fire.


...Jim Thompson

You sure as heck don't know the real Jim Thompson do you

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

James Arthur wrote:
On Feb 28, 1:33 pm, (Nico Coesel) wrote:
"Jim Thompson" wrote:

http://www.marke****ch.com/news/stor...7B40D68525%2DB...
Feb. 26, 2008
.................................................. ................................................
As the broader market began to regain lost ground, crude prices for
April delivery gained 2.3% to a new high of $101.11 a barrel on the
New York Mercantile Exchange, surpassing crude's last record of
$100.65 hit last week.
Some people think the imminent downfall of the US economy is going be
a much bigger problem. The mortgage crisis is just the beginning. I
sure hope the next president has more sense. China and other countries
have huge amounts of dollars.

Rumors of our demise have been greatly exaggerated. (with apologies
to Mark Twain)

If the dollar is sinking deeper, they
will eventually cut their loss and dump their dollars at any price.

Not likely. Old saying: "If you owe the bank $100k and can't pay,
you've got a problem. If you owe the bank $100M and can't pay, the
_bank_ has a problem."

Cheers,
James Arthur

That is part of the issue with the mortgage crisis, and the reason for
the bank bail outs. They have been in the news a little. Almost 100
Billion dollars so far.

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

In message , Don Klipstein
writes
In ,
James Arthur wrote:

on food price inflation

You can thank the biofuel craze for that. Planting for burning drives
up food from supply *and* demand sides, plus all the downstream
products--and in other countries--too.

Unintended consequences:

1. Al Gore sounds alarm
2. biofuel craze
3. farmers grow feedstock for cars instead of people

Results:
4. Human misery increased
a. inflation, locally
b. food becomes unaffordable in Mexico and Haiti
c. people starve

5. Environment not improved
a. replacement food grown, appallingly inefficiently
b. net CO2 emissions increase

I don't see 5b being true. The food plants is are replaced from carbon
already in the environment. If this achieves any reduction in consumption
in fossil fuels, then it achieves a decrease in transfer of carbon from
the lithosphere to the atmosphere, biosphere and hydrosphere.

Only if you don't slash and burn pristine rain forest to grow your new
fuel and food which is what is happening in many places at present. You
lose on both sides of the equation, burning the forest and no longer
having it there to do photosynthesis. By comparison the crops don't fix
as much CO2 and the poor soil quickly degrades without the forest
canopy.

The economics of biofuel are questionable at best - some schemes
actually use more energy from fossil fuel to cultivate and process the
crop it than is yielded by the final product. You might as well not
bother.

When we can turn straw and wood waste into alcohol for fuel then we will
have something useful, but turning grain into fuel is certifiable.

Regards.
--
Martin Brown

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

"MooseFET" wrote in :

Don't warn him, let him get hurt and let him find the truth the hard
way. I already checked with the motorcyclists. They said they're
getting 28-30MPG on highway. There is no such thing 100MPG motorcycle.

America loves to jump to conclusion on everything from Economy to WDM's.
This time you're going to get hurt badly.




http://www.craigvetter.com/pages/470...PG%20Main.html


--
bz

please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an
infinite set.

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

"MooseFET" wrote in :

Don't warn him, let him get hurt and let him find the truth the hard
way. I already checked with the motorcyclists. They said they're
getting 28-30MPG on highway.

They must be driving monster hogs.

There is no such thing 100MPG motorcycle.

Wrong. 100 MPG is very doable now.

The BMW Isetta (a small 4 wheeled car that looks kind of like a pregnant
roller skate, the whole front opens, many think it is a three wheeler
because the back wheels are very close together.) that I drove in college
in the 1960's got about 50 mpg. The GAS tank "held" 1 gallon [with a 1
gallon reserve available via a valve as there was no gas gauge]. Top speed
was about 55 mph, downhill with a tail wind.

The XK120 Jag that I had only got about 8 mpg. It would go a bit faster
than the Isetta. :)


America loves to jump to conclusion on everything from Economy to WDM's.
This time you're going to get hurt badly.

--
bz 73 de N5BZ k

please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an
infinite set.

remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

"bz" wrote in message
98.139...
"MooseFET" wrote in :

Don't warn him, let him get hurt and let him find the truth the hard
way. I already checked with the motorcyclists. They said they're
getting 28-30MPG on highway. There is no such thing 100MPG motorcycle.

America loves to jump to conclusion on everything from Economy to WDM's.
This time you're going to get hurt badly.




http://www.craigvetter.com/pages/470...PG%20Main.html


--
bz

please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an
infinite set.





You haven't finish your school yet, so don't preach, wait until you gained
experience first. Motor cycles can only contain 4 gallons of fuel. Do a
research with the Motorcycle NewsGroup and come back dummy.

Oil prices climb to $101.11 a barrel...
 

On Feb 27, 5:47*pm, "David L. Jones" wrote:
On Feb 28, 12:33 pm, "Jerry G." wrote:

It is very likely, the crude oil price per barrel may get up to about
$120 to $140 by the mid or end of the summer. The reasons are many.
This means that the price of fuel will most likely rise by at least
another 20%.

So why didn't the petrol price go up 700% since oil was $15 back in
1999?
As you say, the reasons are many, but one thing is for sure, petrol
prices have had very little in the way of linear correlation with oil
price.

Dave.

The popular price per barrel quoted in the news is the spot market
price, and ignores the oil refined within vertically-integrated
companies and oil delivered under long-term, fixed-price contracts.