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Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
If I were to be facetious, I'd definitely say that Sylvester McCoy
put the "Tard" into "Tardis". He was highly annoying as The Doctor. I also agree that (for me at least), Tom Baker is the best; I especially like "The Pyramids of Mars", featuring Sutekh The Destroyer! Having said that, I don't remember THAT many Tom Baker episodes because I was still VERY young when he started (1974?) and quite young when he finished ('81 or '82?). I have heard people say many Dr Who fans tend to prefer the actor who was playing The Doctor when they were kids - probably about 10 years old or so. Certainly it's true in my case. "Blake's Seven" (BS) was also good in a rather bare, low-budget kind of way. Avon and Orac (the irritable, arrogant Perspex supercomputer) were my favourite characters. Colin Baker featured in at least one episode, as did Michael Sheard (who was also in Doctor Who IIRC) who was best known to my age group as Mr Bronson on "Grange Hill". Also David Haig from "The Thin Blue Line" appeared in both "Blake's Seven" and "Doctor Who". Also, Servalan (in BS) had sexy shoes on sometimes. Which was nice. Martin -- M.A.Poyser Tel.: 07967 110890 Manchester, U.K. http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=fleetie |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
Fleetie wrote:
snip "Blake's Seven" (BS) was also good in a rather bare, low-budget kind of way. Avon and Orac (the irritable, arrogant Perspex supercomputer) were my favourite characters. Ahhh, Blake's Seven... When it was airing on a local PBS station here in the U.S. in the late '80s, something happened to the continuity of episodes; the arc built up to some major crisis and then suddenly the episodes available to the station were months or years later and I never did follow the development after that. If I ever get the complete series (assuming it is available) it will be essentially new to me again because of this and I certainly would enjoy it. Michael |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
Hi!
Tom Baker was indeed the Doctor of choice for many I can't say that I've made a habit of watching the series, and my understanding of it is highly fractured (being as the PBS station in the area seems to jump all over the place episode and time-wise) but I really enjoyed the episodes with Christopher Eccleston (sp? IIRC) as the doctor...somewhat because of the character but also because the quality of sets and effects seemed to be so much better. Neither here nor there...just my $0.02. William |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
"Arfa Daily" ... "Wickeddoll" ... "Arfa Daily" ... snip My dad lived in Altamonte for many years. All I remember about Ocala was that we played against them in softball, and they usually kicked our arses... Now that's interesting. You commented a few posts above about the way that I spell 'humour', surmising (correctly) that I may be British. Back at ya now. That's the first time I've ever seen an American spell 'arses' the same as we do, rather than as a donkey-like animal ... ?? Arfa You found me out! I'm a shameless Anglophile. In fact, at this moment I'm watching Dangermouse DVDs. :-) Natalie, hoping hubby's next base is in England Well, that would be nice, especially if you like New England weather and scenery. Have you visited here before ? Sadly, I haven't been off the North American continent. :-P I would guess that the liklihood of a posting here has diminished considerably in recent years, as a number of the Anglo - American bases have either closed down or been mothballed since the 'end (??)' of the cold war. To the east of where I live right in the centre, all the way across to the coast, it is very flat fenland, so good for runways. I guess that this, coupled with the proximity to the european mainland, is why all of the bases grew up there in the first place during WW Yeah. But perhaps we can go to another European base, and have easy access to Britain. We can dream. II, and carried on into peacetime, and then grew further as defensive bases run largely by your good ol' boys. Do you still have any bomber forces or whatever permanently located here ? I'm not too sure about that, to be honest. I used to see practice flights come across my county all the time, fighters as well, but don't seem to any more. Dangermouse eh ? I used to watch that many many years ago. Have you ever come across a UK tv programme called 'Minder' ? If not, there are plenty of clips on You Tube. It's where my nic comes from, being a deliberate corruption of the name of one of the two main characters. For no other reason, I might add, than that I always loved the part he played. It was representative of gentler times ... Arfa Never heard of that one. I wondered WTF your nick meant! :-) Natalie |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
wrote in message ... Hi! Tom Baker was indeed the Doctor of choice for many I can't say that I've made a habit of watching the series, and my understanding of it is highly fractured (being as the PBS station in the area seems to jump all over the place episode and time-wise) but I really enjoyed the episodes with Christopher Eccleston (sp? IIRC) as the doctor...somewhat because of the character but also because the quality of sets and effects seemed to be so much better. Neither here nor there...just my $0.02. William He was good, and had the makings of a very good Doctor, but bowed out after just one series, which left a bit of a bad taste with fans. However, if you liked him as the Doctor, try to track down some of the latest episodes with David Tennant. You'll definitely like him. As a measure of what a good actor he is, you might be amazed to learn that he is actually a broad Scot, when talking normally, but for the part of the Doctor, manages to do a really very good and consistent English estuary accent. Arfa |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
"Fleetie" wrote in message ... If I were to be facetious, I'd definitely say that Sylvester McCoy put the "Tard" into "Tardis". He was highly annoying as The Doctor. I also agree that (for me at least), Tom Baker is the best; I especially like "The Pyramids of Mars", featuring Sutekh The Destroyer! Having said that, I don't remember THAT many Tom Baker episodes because I was still VERY young when he started (1974?) and quite young when he finished ('81 or '82?). I have heard people say many Dr Who fans tend to prefer the actor who was playing The Doctor when they were kids - probably about 10 years old or so. Certainly it's true in my case. "Blake's Seven" (BS) was also good in a rather bare, low-budget kind of way. Avon and Orac (the irritable, arrogant Perspex supercomputer) were my favourite characters. Colin Baker featured in at least one episode, as did Michael Sheard (who was also in Doctor Who IIRC) who was best known to my age group as Mr Bronson on "Grange Hill". Also David Haig from "The Thin Blue Line" appeared in both "Blake's Seven" and "Doctor Who". Also, Servalan (in BS) had sexy shoes on sometimes. Which was nice. Martin Oh, Blake's Seven ... I never missed a single episode ... The very last one of season 3 was so sad when the Liberator passed through that cloud of corrosive gas, and the ship was eaten alive by it. I nearly cried, big and ugly as I was, when the ships computer, Zen, finally admitted defeat to Avon and told him that it was sorry that it was no longer able to repair the ship, and closed itself down with its voice failing. I think that was the only time that the computer ever referred to itself as "I". I think that was supposed to be the last ever episode, but it was resurrected for a fourth season with a rather revised concept, and a different ship, as I recall. Pony as it was, with the shaking scenery, and Servalan leering her sexy way through most scenes, I truly loved that series ... Going back to Doctor Who, I saw an interview with Tom Baker a few years back, and he said that although he had loved every minute of working on the show, it had wrecked his acting career, because after leaving it, he was so associated with being the Doctor, he just could not get any mainstream acting work, and apart from a few fairly minor parts, has spent the remainder of his career in a backwater of voiceover and other similar industry-related work, which is a bit of a shame really. When I was in TV repair, as an apprentice, we had a copy, on Philips N1500 format, no less, of an in-house BBC Christmas tape, which purported to have been made by "VT Shift 3". It was very funny, and had many out-takes from programmes, long before these were popular as TV programmes in their own right. One such featured Tom Baker as Doctor Who, propped up on the floor against the Tardis' console. Robot dog K9 trundles in. "What's the situation ? Give me a prognosis,K9 ! " barks Tom. "Insufficient data, master ..." says K9. "No, you never f**king know when it's important, do you ...?", says Tom ! In another, taken from Blake's Seven, Servalan is behind a desk, and a bunch of her black guards come running in, brandishing their storm trooper ray guns. One of the guys slips on the studio floor, and takes a couple more with him. They slide straight into a wall, and bring it down on top of themselves. At another point, a spoof weather forcast is being given, voice only over the BBC logo, like they sometimes used to do at night before closedown (remember closedown ??) It concludes with "And just remember that red sky at night, simply means that your auto-chroma is out of range ..." It then cuts to the BBC TV Centre roof, where a very young Bill Giles (weatherman) is standing holding his jacket collar up, and someone off-camera pouring water on his head. He stands there and just announces "It's ****ing down out here ...." Later on, there is a forthcoming-programme voice-only link piece which goes "Later tonight, the intrepid time lord, Doug Who, has an encounter with the Shed Elevenites !" Clearly, this is some kind of meaningless ( to outsiders ) in-house BBC joke, and at the time you just dismiss it. However, when the 'production' finally gets to the end, there are about 10 minutes of slow-rolling credits. Absolutely everybody gets a mention with entries like 'Take away curries fetched by' , 'Chinagraph pencils sharpened by' , 'VT helical head maintenance by' and so on. The final credit passes up and off the screen, leaving a blank raster that persists for perhaps 5 seconds. Then a final piece of text rolls up the screen, simply saying "Doug Who?". Now that is priceless ! One of the credits read 'Dancers - The Memorex Head Cloggers' Which I always thought was a very clever bit of double meaning ( "cloggers" is a slang term for dancers in the UK, from clog shoes ). Sadly, this tape disappeared many years ago. I bet some old BBC engineer somewhere has still got a copy, though. It must be 25 years since I last saw it, and I would dearly love to see it again. You shouldn't have mentioned Blake's Seven, Martin. You're never going to shut me up now ... Arfa |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
"Wickeddoll" wrote in message ... "Arfa Daily" ... "Wickeddoll" ... snipped I'm a shameless Anglophile. In fact, at this moment I'm watching Dangermouse DVDs. :-) Natalie, hoping hubby's next base is in England Well, that would be nice, especially if you like New England weather and scenery. Have you visited here before ? Sadly, I haven't been off the North American continent. :-P I would guess that the liklihood of a posting here has diminished considerably in recent years, as a number of the Anglo - American bases have either closed down or been mothballed since the 'end (??)' of the cold war. To the east of where I live right in the centre, all the way across to the coast, it is very flat fenland, so good for runways. I guess that this, coupled with the proximity to the european mainland, is why all of the bases grew up there in the first place during WW Yeah. But perhaps we can go to another European base, and have easy access to Britain. We can dream. That'd be cool. And now w/the EU, once in at point of entry, no more passport/customs hassles. And except for the UK which is clinging to its pounds & pence, no more currency changing, either. Someday I want to take the Eurostar train from London to Paris - or vice-versa. Or round-trip. ;-) City center to city center in under 3 hours. Works for me. :-) If you ever do get to Europe - my advice: go down to the Mediterranean - its colors are *beautiful* - 3 shades of aqua/turquoise. So-o-o-o soothing to just look at... I hadn't realized how gorgeous it was going to be (I was in Nice, & along the coast to Monaco). Rivals Bermuda's waters, & those I've seen in pics of the Caribbean. I was there in mid-April - sunny, but not hot - just right (IMO): mid-70's. If you get to the U.K. - go everywhere you can! Really diverse areas, for a smallish place. ;-) Cathy |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
"Cathy F." wrote in message ... If you get to the U.K. - go everywhere you can! Really diverse areas, for a smallish place. ;-) P.S. And they really *do* say "Ta", & "Thanks, ducks", & Ta, love". ;-) Cathy |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
"Cathy F." wrote in message ... "Cathy F." wrote in message ... If you get to the U.K. - go everywhere you can! Really diverse areas, for a smallish place. ;-) P.S. And they really *do* say "Ta", & "Thanks, ducks", & Ta, love". ;-) Cathy And "Thanks me duck" and "cheers luvvy" - And that's in the areas where you can understand the people ! You should try Tyneside, or Cornwall, or parts of Liverpool and Norfolk, and the Scots ! Well even I can't understand some of them, and I'm born and bred here ... Arfa |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
"Cathy F." ... "Wickeddoll"... "Arfa Daily" ... snipped I'm a shameless Anglophile. In fact, at this moment I'm watching Dangermouse DVDs. :-) Natalie, hoping hubby's next base is in England Well, that would be nice, especially if you like New England weather and scenery. Have you visited here before ? Sadly, I haven't been off the North American continent. :-P I would guess that the liklihood of a posting here has diminished considerably in recent years, as a number of the Anglo - American bases have either closed down or been mothballed since the 'end (??)' of the cold war. To the east of where I live right in the centre, all the way across to the coast, it is very flat fenland, so good for runways. I guess that this, coupled with the proximity to the european mainland, is why all of the bases grew up there in the first place during WW Yeah. But perhaps we can go to another European base, and have easy access to Britain. We can dream. That'd be cool. And now w/the EU, once in at point of entry, no more passport/customs hassles. And except for the UK which is clinging to its pounds & pence, no more currency changing, either. Someday I want to take the Eurostar train from London to Paris - or vice-versa. Or round-trip. ;-) City center to city center in under 3 hours. Works for me. :-) If you ever do get to Europe - my advice: go down to the Mediterranean - its colors are *beautiful* - 3 shades of aqua/turquoise. So-o-o-o soothing to just look at... I hadn't realized how gorgeous it was going to be (I was in Nice, & along the coast to Monaco). Rivals Bermuda's waters, & those I've seen in pics of the Caribbean. I was there in mid-April - sunny, but not hot - just right (IMO): mid-70's. Well, if we get stationed in Europe, we'll be there for all seasons, but I doubt there is anyplace in Europe that's more miserably hot than Florida's climate. Cold doesn't faze me at all - I love it! If you get to the U.K. - go everywhere you can! Really diverse areas, for a smallish place. ;-) Cathy You're preaching to the converted, toots. Natalie |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
"Cathy F." ... If you get to the U.K. - go everywhere you can! Really diverse areas, for a smallish place. ;-) P.S. And they really *do* say "Ta", & "Thanks, ducks", & Ta, love". ;-) Cathy Haven't been to Britain, but have certainly chatted online with plenty of them; enough to know *that* anyway. :-) Natalie |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
"Arfa Daily" ... "Cathy F." ... If you get to the U.K. - go everywhere you can! Really diverse areas, for a smallish place. ;-) P.S. And they really *do* say "Ta", & "Thanks, ducks", & Ta, love". ;-) Cathy And "Thanks me duck" and "cheers luvvy" - And that's in the areas where you can understand the people ! You should try Tyneside, or Cornwall, or parts of Liverpool and Norfolk, and the Scots ! Speaking of regional expressions, it's always disconcerting to see what British TV shows do to portray Americans. It's quite painful (they rarely have a convincing American "accent"), but even more excruciating is the way the "Americans" act. I truly hope that's not what the rest of the world really thinks we're like! Well even I can't understand some of them, and I'm born and bred here ... Arfa LOL that's me with some mid-westerners. Damned cryptic sometimes, doncha new. New Englanders can lose me when they speak too quickly. Natalie |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message ... "Cathy F." wrote in message ... "Cathy F." wrote in message ... If you get to the U.K. - go everywhere you can! Really diverse areas, for a smallish place. ;-) P.S. And they really *do* say "Ta", & "Thanks, ducks", & Ta, love". ;-) Cathy And "Thanks me duck" and "cheers luvvy" - Yeah, until I went to the UK, I thought that was probably mostly tourist hype. Nope. :-) And that's in the areas where you can understand the people ! You should try Tyneside, or Cornwall, or parts of Liverpool and Norfolk, and the Scots ! Well even I can't understand some of them, and I'm born and bred here ... On the way north from Torquay was in a train carriage w/a man who was going up to Blackpool - don't know if that's where he was from, but I just did a lot of nodding of my head & smiling. ;-) Friendly, chatty man, but I understood maybe 1/4 - 1/3 of what he was saying. I think why I had trouble understanding him was that he dropped his consonants a lot. First time I was in Edinburgh... at Waverly Station I asked for "an orange soda" at the cafeteria. The guy behind the counter kept asking me if I wanted it still. I had no clue what he was on about. Finally had to ask him just what he was asking me. (Me: thinking, "Yeah, I still want it!) "Well, do you want it still or do you want it fizzy?!", he asked. Oh!.... But I had assumed that by using the word "soda" that he would know I wanted a carbonated drink... guess not. Had to ask the guys at the hotel's front desk to repeat themselves a few times, too - didn't always catch it the first time around. Was in Cornwall (mostly on the north coast) - no probs there. Other than "eating weeds" - the super-narrow roads & hedgerows - when the car window was open. g And in Yorkshire (in the York/Harrogate/Thirsk area) - same thing. OTOH, the latter - had already read all of James Herriot's/Alf Wight's books. ;-) And have watched lots of BBC shows on PBS here - probably helps when listening to the various accents. Cathy Arfa |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
"Wickeddoll" wrote in message ... "Cathy F." ... snipped Well, if we get stationed in Europe, we'll be there for all seasons, but I doubt there is anyplace in Europe that's more miserably hot than Florida's climate. Cold doesn't faze me at all - I love it! I'm not as crazy about the snow (shovel, shovel, shovel...) & cold NE winters as I used to be, but OTOH I can not *imagine* living in the SE. Way too hot & humid for moi. And I do like the 4 very distinct seasons here. If you get to the U.K. - go everywhere you can! Really diverse areas, for a smallish place. ;-) Cathy You're preaching to the converted, toots. ;-) Cathy |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
"Wickeddoll" wrote in message ... "Cathy F." ... If you get to the U.K. - go everywhere you can! Really diverse areas, for a smallish place. ;-) P.S. And they really *do* say "Ta", & "Thanks, ducks", & Ta, love". ;-) Cathy Haven't been to Britain, but have certainly chatted online with plenty of them; enough to know *that* anyway. :-) Makes sense. But I first went to the UK in '78 (my sister was doing a semester of college in London), so didn't have any on-line experience w/ British friends yet. Cathy Natalie |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
"Cathy F." ... "Wickeddoll" snipped Well, if we get stationed in Europe, we'll be there for all seasons, but I doubt there is anyplace in Europe that's more miserably hot than Florida's climate. Cold doesn't faze me at all - I love it! I'm not as crazy about the snow (shovel, shovel, shovel...) & cold NE winters as I used to be, but OTOH I can not *imagine* living in the SE. Way too hot & humid for moi. And I do like the 4 very distinct seasons here. Sure, rub it in. *snip* Natalie |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
"Wickeddoll" wrote in message ... "Arfa Daily" ... "Cathy F." ... If you get to the U.K. - go everywhere you can! Really diverse areas, for a smallish place. ;-) P.S. And they really *do* say "Ta", & "Thanks, ducks", & Ta, love". ;-) Cathy And "Thanks me duck" and "cheers luvvy" - And that's in the areas where you can understand the people ! You should try Tyneside, or Cornwall, or parts of Liverpool and Norfolk, and the Scots ! Speaking of regional expressions, it's always disconcerting to see what British TV shows do to portray Americans. It's quite painful (they rarely have a convincing American "accent"), but even more excruciating is the way the "Americans" act. I truly hope that's not what the rest of the world really thinks we're like! Well, that's a bit of an interesting one. I visit America several times a year, so have a pretty reasonable idea of the way Americans behave when at home, and I actually think that it *is* pretty much as (over)portrayed, which is confident, loud, a little brash perhaps, but the thing is, it doesn't come over that way when you are there, because of the sheer size and scale of the place, and everything in it. Sort of 'being big, in a big place', if you will. However, if you think about it, American TV, and the American people, do much the same to Brits, in reverse. I bet if you try to imagine a British person, not having been here, and having only TV as a reference, you come up with the very conservative stiff upper lip, plum-in-the-mouth-newsreader-accent Basil Fawlty stereotype. And I'm sure that many of us probably come across that way when we are in your country. But if you asked those people about that, like you, they would probably be horrified that you perceived them in such a way. I guess that also, you are basing your view of our view of Americans, on TV programmes that are often made to be, if not full-on comedies, then at least amusing, and that is where another huge difference between us comes in. These TV programmes often employ a 'lampooning' style of humour, which appeals to Brits, so the 'archetypal' American that might appear is deliberately 'blown up' into the brash, loud clown, for just that purpose. Think Fawlty Towers - the Waldorf Salad episode. By the same token, British characters may also be overblown to the same purpose. Again, think The Major or Basil himself, in Fawlty Towers. Whilst such people do genuinely exist, they are actually a rarity, but many Americans that I know, expect all British people to be like that, because they have seen things like Fawlty Towers, and the similarly archetypal 'Brit' that the American TV people put into their comedy shows. Does any of that make any sense at all ? Arfa |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
"Wickeddoll" wrote in message ... "Cathy F." ... "Wickeddoll"... "Arfa Daily" ... snipped I'm a shameless Anglophile. In fact, at this moment I'm watching Dangermouse DVDs. :-) Natalie, hoping hubby's next base is in England Well, that would be nice, especially if you like New England weather and scenery. Have you visited here before ? Sadly, I haven't been off the North American continent. :-P I would guess that the liklihood of a posting here has diminished considerably in recent years, as a number of the Anglo - American bases have either closed down or been mothballed since the 'end (??)' of the cold war. To the east of where I live right in the centre, all the way across to the coast, it is very flat fenland, so good for runways. I guess that this, coupled with the proximity to the european mainland, is why all of the bases grew up there in the first place during WW Yeah. But perhaps we can go to another European base, and have easy access to Britain. We can dream. That'd be cool. And now w/the EU, once in at point of entry, no more passport/customs hassles. And except for the UK which is clinging to its pounds & pence, no more currency changing, either. Someday I want to take the Eurostar train from London to Paris - or vice-versa. Or round-trip. ;-) City center to city center in under 3 hours. Works for me. :-) If you ever do get to Europe - my advice: go down to the Mediterranean - its colors are *beautiful* - 3 shades of aqua/turquoise. So-o-o-o soothing to just look at... I hadn't realized how gorgeous it was going to be (I was in Nice, & along the coast to Monaco). Rivals Bermuda's waters, & those I've seen in pics of the Caribbean. I was there in mid-April - sunny, but not hot - just right (IMO): mid-70's. Well, if we get stationed in Europe, we'll be there for all seasons, but I doubt there is anyplace in Europe that's more miserably hot than Florida's climate. Cold doesn't faze me at all - I love it! Hot we can do. It's just not so miserably humid ... Oh, and most of Europe has only just heard the words 'air conditioner', so you better be able to do hot with no relief ! British Summers, when we get a good one, are really pleasant. Temperature 70 to 80. Clear blue skies. Gentle south westerly breeze, not too much humidity. Sometimes though, it can be very rainy for weeks on end. Last year was a good example of that. The weather can be very variable also. Because it is a relatively small island, a change of wind direction can alter the temperature by 20 degrees in a day, and it can go from a bright clear morning to a dull, heavy and overcast afternoon, with threatening thunderheads, in the space of a couple of hours - bit like Florida, really !! Arfa |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message ... snipped These TV programmes often employ a 'lampooning' style of humour, which appeals to Brits, so the 'archetypal' American that might appear is deliberately 'blown up' into the brash, loud clown, for just that purpose. Think Fawlty Towers - the Waldorf Salad episode. Ah, yes.. ;-) By the same token, British characters may also be overblown to the same purpose. Again, think The Major or Basil himself, in Fawlty Towers. Whilst such people do genuinely exist, they are actually a rarity, but many Americans that I know, expect all British people to be like that, because they have seen things like Fawlty Towers, and the similarly archetypal 'Brit' that the American TV people put into their comedy shows. Does any of that make any sense at all ? Yes. More Jerry Leadbetter's (of Good Neighbors AKA The Good Life) than Basil's. Hopefully not as many Margo's - or Hyacinth Bucket's -as there are Barbara Good's. ;-) Cathy Arfa |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
"Arfa Daily" ... "Wickeddoll" ... "Cathy F." ... If you get to the U.K. - go everywhere you can! Really diverse areas, for a smallish place. ;-) P.S. And they really *do* say "Ta", & "Thanks, ducks", & Ta, love". ;-) Cathy And "Thanks me duck" and "cheers luvvy" - And that's in the areas where you can understand the people ! You should try Tyneside, or Cornwall, or parts of Liverpool and Norfolk, and the Scots ! Speaking of regional expressions, it's always disconcerting to see what British TV shows do to portray Americans. It's quite painful (they rarely have a convincing American "accent"), but even more excruciating is the way the "Americans" act. I truly hope that's not what the rest of the world really thinks we're like! Well, that's a bit of an interesting one. I visit America several times a year, so have a pretty reasonable idea of the way Americans behave when at home, and I actually think that it *is* pretty much as (over)portrayed, which is confident, loud, a little brash perhaps, but the thing is, it doesn't come over that way when you are there, because of the sheer size and scale of the place, and everything in it. Sort of 'being big, in a big place', if you will. You're not helping... :-) However, if you think about it, American TV, and the American people, do much the same to Brits, in reverse. I bet if you try to imagine a British person, not having been here, and having only TV as a reference, you come up with the very conservative stiff upper lip, plum-in-the-mouth-newsreader-accent Basil Fawlty stereotype. And I'm sure that many of us probably come across that way when we are in your country. But if you asked those people about that, like you, they would probably be horrified that you perceived them in such a way. I guess that also, you are basing your view of our view of Americans, on TV programmes that are often made to be, if not full-on comedies, then at least amusing, and that is where another huge difference between us comes in. These TV programmes often employ a 'lampooning' style of humour, which appeals to Brits, so the 'archetypal' American that might appear is deliberately 'blown up' into the brash, loud clown, for just that purpose. Think Fawlty Towers - the Waldorf Salad episode. Right, but even the dramas that have "American" characters seem to go nuts with the stereotype at times. Such as "Dead Again" (terrible movie, but Kenneth Branagh did an *excellent* American dialect - Emma Thompson absolutely sucks at it - both there and in "Primary Colors") When Branagh was the American character, he was much more aggressive, loutish; absolutely no class. It was depressing. LOL By the same token, British characters may also be overblown to the same purpose. Again, think The Major or Basil himself, in Fawlty Towers. Whilst such people do genuinely exist, they are actually a rarity, but many Americans that I know, expect all British people to be like that, because they have seen things like Fawlty Towers, and the similarly archetypal 'Brit' that the American TV people put into their comedy shows. Does any of that make any sense at all ? Arfa Absolutely. As a black woman, I know all too well that the media in general tends to overdo any archetype, but I haven't yet seen a subtle American in a British production. Maybe I've missed some? Natalie |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
"Arfa Daily" ... "Wickeddoll" ... "Cathy F." ... snipped If you ever do get to Europe - my advice: go down to the Mediterranean - its colors are *beautiful* - 3 shades of aqua/turquoise. So-o-o-o soothing to just look at... I hadn't realized how gorgeous it was going to be (I was in Nice, & along the coast to Monaco). Rivals Bermuda's waters, & those I've seen in pics of the Caribbean. I was there in mid-April - sunny, but not hot - just right (IMO): mid-70's. Well, if we get stationed in Europe, we'll be there for all seasons, but I doubt there is anyplace in Europe that's more miserably hot than Florida's climate. Cold doesn't faze me at all - I love it! Hot we can do. It's just not so miserably humid ... Oh, and most of Europe has only just heard the words 'air conditioner', so you better be able to do hot with no relief ! British Summers, when we get a good one, are really pleasant. Temperature 70 to 80. Clear blue skies. Gentle south westerly breeze, not too much humidity. Sometimes though, it can be very rainy for weeks on end. Last year was a good example of that. The weather can be very variable also. Because it is a relatively small island, a change of wind direction can alter the temperature by 20 degrees in a day, and it can go from a bright clear morning to a dull, heavy and overcast afternoon, with threatening thunderheads, in the space of a couple of hours - bit like Florida, really !! Arfa But I also love rain, so that works, too. I was definitely born into the *wrong* climate. Natalie |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
"Cathy F." wrote in message ... "Arfa Daily" wrote in message ... snipped These TV programmes often employ a 'lampooning' style of humour, which appeals to Brits, so the 'archetypal' American that might appear is deliberately 'blown up' into the brash, loud clown, for just that purpose. Think Fawlty Towers - the Waldorf Salad episode. Ah, yes.. ;-) By the same token, British characters may also be overblown to the same purpose. Again, think The Major or Basil himself, in Fawlty Towers. Whilst such people do genuinely exist, they are actually a rarity, but many Americans that I know, expect all British people to be like that, because they have seen things like Fawlty Towers, and the similarly archetypal 'Brit' that the American TV people put into their comedy shows. Does any of that make any sense at all ? Yes. More Jerry Leadbetter's (of Good Neighbors AKA The Good Life) than Basil's. Hopefully not as many Margo's - or Hyacinth Bucket's -as there are Barbara Good's. ;-) Cathy Hyacinth Bucket's show was filmed in and around my town ... Arfa |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 23:39:59 -0500, Wickeddoll wrote:
Er...the Old Man fell off the Mountain. It just couldn't hold up any longer. Don't you read the news? Natalie Yer kidding, right? I was working in VT at the time. No, I'm not - are you? Natalie Oh, dear, remember I live here! The OMOTM made ALL the newscasts when he hit the deck. Too bad...now what does NH use on their quarter? |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 06:08:34 +0000, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
The cops come to your house today. They push their ways past you and begin searching your house without a warrant. They don't ask permission to search. What would be your thoughts on this? That's just a slight bit different. No, it's not. You're an idiot. Please kill yourself. Let me know if you need help. Here's the problem, since it seems to go right over your head: the Internet, basically, is a Public utility. If you, or Meathead really has that much trouble with monitoring, go elsewhere. Get on a private forum. Rem3ember the old BBS systems? Yeah, I'd have a problem with that. I don't have a problem with them monitoring me trying to tell you why it's not a bad thing. That last sentence needs to be rewritten when you are sober. 2009, maybe? Here, let's try so even you can understand. It's not a bad thing. What's the problem? |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 06:07:23 +0000, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
It ain't gonna happen? The U.S. has already found a way to suspend habeas corpus. You're probably OK with that. Who cares about Guantanamo? It has been suspended for citizens living in the 48 mainland states. But, since you spend your days with a needle in your arm, you don't catch this sort of news. Huh? When did this happen? Habeus has NOT been suspended! You need to cite where it's been 'suspended'. It hasn't. You're confused. |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 05:30:56 +0000, Eeyore wrote:
"dbu." wrote: Habeas Corpus is not suspended, goofy. It is (in the USA) if THEY decide you're a terrorist. No proof required whatever. Graham That's OK. No Problem. Since a LOT of the people they have incarcerated for terrorism ARE terrorists! Take the case of Dave Whatever from Austrailia. Wrote a letter to his Mum saying he would fight, kill and die for the 'cause'. The cause was Jihad. The tactics of the Muslims is terrorism. They jailed him at Guantanamo, then moved him to a prison in Austrailia. He was released last week after 6 years. Should have kept him at Guantanamo... |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
"Hachiroku ????" Wickeddoll wrote: Er...the Old Man fell off the Mountain. It just couldn't hold up any longer. Don't you read the news? Natalie Yer kidding, right? I was working in VT at the time. No, I'm not - are you? Natalie Oh, dear, remember I live here! The OMOTM made ALL the newscasts when he hit the deck. Too bad...now what does NH use on their quarter? Dunno - he was on their license plates too. (love that plate - still have my old one from there) Natalie |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
"Wickeddoll" wrote in message ... "Arfa Daily" ... "Wickeddoll" ... "Cathy F." ... If you get to the U.K. - go everywhere you can! Really diverse areas, for a smallish place. ;-) P.S. And they really *do* say "Ta", & "Thanks, ducks", & Ta, love". ;-) Cathy And "Thanks me duck" and "cheers luvvy" - And that's in the areas where you can understand the people ! You should try Tyneside, or Cornwall, or parts of Liverpool and Norfolk, and the Scots ! Speaking of regional expressions, it's always disconcerting to see what British TV shows do to portray Americans. It's quite painful (they rarely have a convincing American "accent"), but even more excruciating is the way the "Americans" act. I truly hope that's not what the rest of the world really thinks we're like! Well, that's a bit of an interesting one. I visit America several times a year, so have a pretty reasonable idea of the way Americans behave when at home, and I actually think that it *is* pretty much as (over)portrayed, which is confident, loud, a little brash perhaps, but the thing is, it doesn't come over that way when you are there, because of the sheer size and scale of the place, and everything in it. Sort of 'being big, in a big place', if you will. You're not helping... :-) However, if you think about it, American TV, and the American people, do much the same to Brits, in reverse. I bet if you try to imagine a British person, not having been here, and having only TV as a reference, you come up with the very conservative stiff upper lip, plum-in-the-mouth-newsreader-accent Basil Fawlty stereotype. And I'm sure that many of us probably come across that way when we are in your country. But if you asked those people about that, like you, they would probably be horrified that you perceived them in such a way. I guess that also, you are basing your view of our view of Americans, on TV programmes that are often made to be, if not full-on comedies, then at least amusing, and that is where another huge difference between us comes in. These TV programmes often employ a 'lampooning' style of humour, which appeals to Brits, so the 'archetypal' American that might appear is deliberately 'blown up' into the brash, loud clown, for just that purpose. Think Fawlty Towers - the Waldorf Salad episode. Right, but even the dramas that have "American" characters seem to go nuts with the stereotype at times. Such as "Dead Again" (terrible movie, but Kenneth Branagh did an *excellent* American dialect - Emma Thompson absolutely sucks at it - both there and in "Primary Colors") When Branagh was the American character, he was much more aggressive, loutish; absolutely no class. It was depressing. LOL By the same token, British characters may also be overblown to the same purpose. Again, think The Major or Basil himself, in Fawlty Towers. Whilst such people do genuinely exist, they are actually a rarity, but many Americans that I know, expect all British people to be like that, because they have seen things like Fawlty Towers, and the similarly archetypal 'Brit' that the American TV people put into their comedy shows. Does any of that make any sense at all ? Arfa Absolutely. As a black woman, I know all too well that the media in general tends to overdo any archetype, but I haven't yet seen a subtle American in a British production. Maybe I've missed some? Natalie Captain Jack in the latest Doctor Who's, and the spinoff Torchwood, perhaps ? Know what you mean though. It seems that neither of us can get it right. I too cringe when I see an American actor trying to do a British accent, or worse a British dialect like east end London. When you consider what a 'global' thing entertainment is, and how closely linked the American and British film and TV industries are, you would think that they could get it a bit more right, wouldn't you? Perhaps, of course, we are looking at this from the wrong angle. Maybe, it is more about expectations than reality. By that I mean that although America is now the number one long haul holiday destination in the UK, I still don't know many people besides myself, who go regularly, or even have *ever* been there, so have no idea of the reality. I'm willing to bet that the situation is similar there. So a pre-conceived idea of what an American is like, has grown up here, and likewise, the same has happened over there about Brits. The TV and film industries then just go ahead and feed those notions. Arfa |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
"Wickeddoll" wrote in message ... "Arfa Daily" ... "Wickeddoll" ... "Cathy F." ... snipped If you ever do get to Europe - my advice: go down to the Mediterranean - its colors are *beautiful* - 3 shades of aqua/turquoise. So-o-o-o soothing to just look at... I hadn't realized how gorgeous it was going to be (I was in Nice, & along the coast to Monaco). Rivals Bermuda's waters, & those I've seen in pics of the Caribbean. I was there in mid-April - sunny, but not hot - just right (IMO): mid-70's. Well, if we get stationed in Europe, we'll be there for all seasons, but I doubt there is anyplace in Europe that's more miserably hot than Florida's climate. Cold doesn't faze me at all - I love it! Hot we can do. It's just not so miserably humid ... Oh, and most of Europe has only just heard the words 'air conditioner', so you better be able to do hot with no relief ! British Summers, when we get a good one, are really pleasant. Temperature 70 to 80. Clear blue skies. Gentle south westerly breeze, not too much humidity. Sometimes though, it can be very rainy for weeks on end. Last year was a good example of that. The weather can be very variable also. Because it is a relatively small island, a change of wind direction can alter the temperature by 20 degrees in a day, and it can go from a bright clear morning to a dull, heavy and overcast afternoon, with threatening thunderheads, in the space of a couple of hours - bit like Florida, really !! Arfa But I also love rain, so that works, too. I was definitely born into the *wrong* climate. Natalie Then jump that plane, and come on over girl ! I reckon we are going to be in for one of our 'nice' summers, this year ... Arfa |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
"Arfa Daily" ... "Wickeddoll" ... *snip* However, if you think about it, American TV, and the American people, do much the same to Brits, in reverse. I bet if you try to imagine a British person, not having been here, and having only TV as a reference, you come up with the very conservative stiff upper lip, plum-in-the-mouth-newsreader-accent Basil Fawlty stereotype. And I'm sure that many of us probably come across that way when we are in your country. But if you asked those people about that, like you, they would probably be horrified that you perceived them in such a way. I guess that also, you are basing your view of our view of Americans, on TV programmes that are often made to be, if not full-on comedies, then at least amusing, and that is where another huge difference between us comes in. These TV programmes often employ a 'lampooning' style of humour, which appeals to Brits, so the 'archetypal' American that might appear is deliberately 'blown up' into the brash, loud clown, for just that purpose. Think Fawlty Towers - the Waldorf Salad episode. Right, but even the dramas that have "American" characters seem to go nuts with the stereotype at times. Such as "Dead Again" (terrible movie, but Kenneth Branagh did an *excellent* American dialect - Emma Thompson absolutely sucks at it - both there and in "Primary Colors") When Branagh was the American character, he was much more aggressive, loutish; absolutely no class. It was depressing. LOL By the same token, British characters may also be overblown to the same purpose. Again, think The Major or Basil himself, in Fawlty Towers. Whilst such people do genuinely exist, they are actually a rarity, but many Americans that I know, expect all British people to be like that, because they have seen things like Fawlty Towers, and the similarly archetypal 'Brit' that the American TV people put into their comedy shows. Does any of that make any sense at all ? Arfa Absolutely. As a black woman, I know all too well that the media in general tends to overdo any archetype, but I haven't yet seen a subtle American in a British production. Maybe I've missed some? Natalie Captain Jack in the latest Doctor Who's, and the spinoff Torchwood, perhaps ? Know what you mean though. It seems that neither of us can get it right. I too cringe when I see an American actor trying to do a British accent, or worse a British dialect like east end London. When you consider what a 'global' thing entertainment is, and how closely linked the American and British film and TV industries are, you would think that they could get it a bit more right, wouldn't you? Well, the entertainment industry doesn't like to give its audience much credit for brains, so they figure we're easily fooled. As for Americans trying to be Brits, the only one who didn't make me gag was James Marsten on "Buffy" - there was another faux Brit on that show, but I realized he was a fake right away. (Alexis Denisof). Brits have said Marsten does a good job, but mixes regional dialects. A Yank like me would never catch that :-) I liked Renee Zellwiger's work with the accent too, but again, she probably didn't get it just right. On the other hand, Drew Barrymore was downright nauseatingly bad with the Brit accent in "Ever After" though it's still one of my favorite flicks. I love Drew in just about everything else. Perhaps, of course, we are looking at this from the wrong angle. Maybe, it is more about expectations than reality. By that I mean that although America is now the number one long haul holiday destination in the UK, I still don't know many people besides myself, who go regularly, or even have *ever* been there, so have no idea of the reality. I'm willing to bet that the situation is similar there. So a pre-conceived idea of what an American is like, has grown up here, and likewise, the same has happened over there about Brits. The TV and film industries then just go ahead and feed those notions. Arfa See what I wrote above :-) Natalie |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
"Arfa Daily" ... "Wickeddoll" ... *snip* Hot we can do. It's just not so miserably humid ... Oh, and most of Europe has only just heard the words 'air conditioner', so you better be able to do hot with no relief ! British Summers, when we get a good one, are really pleasant. Temperature 70 to 80. Clear blue skies. Gentle south westerly breeze, not too much humidity. Sometimes though, it can be very rainy for weeks on end. Last year was a good example of that. The weather can be very variable also. Because it is a relatively small island, a change of wind direction can alter the temperature by 20 degrees in a day, and it can go from a bright clear morning to a dull, heavy and overcast afternoon, with threatening thunderheads, in the space of a couple of hours - bit like Florida, really !! Arfa But I also love rain, so that works, too. I was definitely born into the *wrong* climate. Natalie Then jump that plane, and come on over girl ! I reckon we are going to be in for one of our 'nice' summers, this year ... Arfa I would, but this pesky life I have here for the moment... :-) Natalie |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message ... "Cathy F." wrote in message ... "Arfa Daily" wrote in message ... Does any of that make any sense at all ? Yes. More Jerry Leadbetter's (of Good Neighbors AKA The Good Life) than Basil's. Hopefully not as many Margo's - or Hyacinth Bucket's -as there are Barbara Good's. ;-) Cathy Hyacinth Bucket's show was filmed in and around my town ... Cool. I once made a pilgrimage of sorts to Surbiton, trying to locate "The Avenue" - just in case the address was relatively real vs. fictitious. Found Surbiton w/no problems, but The Avenue... (But we'd lumped it in w/Hampton Ct. Palace & Windsor Castle/Eton as a day trip, so was a satisfying day anyway.) Had much better luck out in Cornwall, plenty of Poldark locations. Stippy Stappy, the folly at Port Quin, Trerice... Cathy Arfa |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
Wickeddoll wrote:
"Arfa Daily" ... "Wickeddoll" ... snippage Arfa See what I wrote above :-) Natalie Suggest you catch an episode of "House", with Hugh Laurie, OBE on Fox.... jak |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
"Cathy F." wrote in message ... "Arfa Daily" wrote in message ... "Cathy F." wrote in message ... "Arfa Daily" wrote in message ... Does any of that make any sense at all ? Yes. More Jerry Leadbetter's (of Good Neighbors AKA The Good Life) than Basil's. Hopefully not as many Margo's - or Hyacinth Bucket's -as there are Barbara Good's. ;-) Cathy Hyacinth Bucket's show was filmed in and around my town ... Cool. I once made a pilgrimage of sorts to Surbiton, trying to locate "The Avenue" - just in case the address was relatively real vs. fictitious. Found Surbiton w/no problems, but The Avenue... (But we'd lumped it in w/Hampton Ct. Palace & Windsor Castle/Eton as a day trip, so was a satisfying day anyway.) Had much better luck out in Cornwall, plenty of Poldark locations. Stippy Stappy, the folly at Port Quin, Trerice... Cathy That would be because it wasn't actually filmed in Surbiton. Most of the location work was done in the town of Northampton, which is in the Midlands, about 60 miles north of London. As a matter of interest, my younger daughter lives down there by Hampton Court. She is at Kingston University studying art. Some really quite famous people have pads down there by the side of the river. Don't know if he still does, but Mick Jagger had a place down there. Dave Gilmour from Pink Floyd lives there too, and has a large barge permanently parked at his bit of waterfront, which contains his personal recording studio. The boat is called the Astoria, and was originally built for the famous impressario Fred Karno. Arfa |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
"Hachiroku ????" wrote in message news:aGdfj.11830$cq5.6792@trndny06... On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 05:30:56 +0000, Eeyore wrote: "dbu." wrote: Habeas Corpus is not suspended, goofy. It is (in the USA) if THEY decide you're a terrorist. No proof required whatever. Graham That's OK. No Problem. Since a LOT of the people they have incarcerated for terrorism ARE terrorists! Take the case of Dave Whatever from Austrailia. Wrote a letter to his Mum saying he would fight, kill and die for the 'cause'. The cause was Jihad. The tactics of the Muslims is terrorism. They jailed him at Guantanamo, then moved him to a prison in Austrailia. He was released last week after 6 years. Should have kept him at Guantanamo... This is actually a tricky one, where a country has a fundamental principle of freedom of speech. It's a big step from someone voicing Walter Mitty delusions of being a terrorist, to actually being one. Just in the last few weeks, a young girl has been jailed here in the UK under the prevention of terrorism act, for writing delusional poems about being a terrorist. Interestingly, she was employed in a shop at Heathrow Airport ... I don't think that it was a particuarly clever thing to do, but you have to ask yourself exactly what crime she has committed, in a country where people supposedly have a right to say what they like, and hold whatever opinions they like. There is a lot of double standards like this creeping in now. Had this girl have been a character in a TV show, say, would the writer of that show have been guilty of the same offence that she was, for coming up with the poems, writing them down, giving them as a script to a credible actor, and then getting them broadcast on public television? There are now huge issues here with voicing any negative opinions in public about anyone being gay, or about anyone's race or colour or most any other characteristic, but it is fine to do so as part of a 'make believe' television production. Why is it so hugely offensive for these people to have negative comments made about them in reality, but apparently not when it's done in the TV world of make believe ? Arresting and incarcerating people for talking like a terrorist, without any proof that they are actually a terrorist, is drifting towards a dangerous situation of a totalitarian state, complete with thought police ... Arfa |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
"jakdedert" ... Wickeddoll wrote: "Arfa Daily" ... ... snippage Arfa See what I wrote above :-) Natalie Suggest you catch an episode of "House", with Hugh Laurie, OBE on Fox.... jak I have - he slips once in a while, but does a good job. I liked him way better as a moron in the Blackadder series, though. Brilliantly dumb character, if you know what I mean. Natalie |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
Arfa Daily wrote:
Hyacinth Bucket's show was filmed in and around my town ... You are Richard Bucket and I claim my five pounds! Ron(UK) |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
"Ron(UK)" wrote in message ... Arfa Daily wrote: Hyacinth Bucket's show was filmed in and around my town ... You are Richard Bucket and I claim my five pounds! Ron(UK) I am not, so you can't have it !! Arfa |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
Arfa Daily wrote:
"Ron(UK)" wrote in message ... Arfa Daily wrote: Hyacinth Bucket's show was filmed in and around my town ... You are Richard Bucket and I claim my five pounds! Ron(UK) I am not, so you can't have it !! Arfa Reeeeeecharrrrddd |
Repair or despair? Natalie or Jim?
On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 01:51:25 +0000, Arfa Daily wrote:
"Hachiroku ????" wrote in message news:aGdfj.11830$cq5.6792@trndny06... On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 05:30:56 +0000, Eeyore wrote: "dbu." wrote: Habeas Corpus is not suspended, goofy. It is (in the USA) if THEY decide you're a terrorist. No proof required whatever. Graham That's OK. No Problem. Since a LOT of the people they have incarcerated for terrorism ARE terrorists! Take the case of Dave Whatever from Austrailia. Wrote a letter to his Mum saying he would fight, kill and die for the 'cause'. The cause was Jihad. The tactics of the Muslims is terrorism. They jailed him at Guantanamo, then moved him to a prison in Austrailia. He was released last week after 6 years. Should have kept him at Guantanamo... This is actually a tricky one, where a country has a fundamental principle of freedom of speech. It's a big step from someone voicing Walter Mitty delusions of being a terrorist, to actually being one. Just in the last few weeks, a young girl has been jailed here in the UK under the prevention of terrorism act, for writing delusional poems about being a terrorist. Interestingly, she was employed in a shop at Heathrow Airport ... I don't think that it was a particuarly clever thing to do, but you have to ask yourself exactly what crime she has committed, in a country where people supposedly have a right to say what they like, and hold whatever opinions they like. There is a lot of double standards like this creeping in now. Had this girl have been a character in a TV show, say, would the writer of that show have been guilty of the same offence that she was, for coming up with the poems, writing them down, giving them as a script to a credible actor, and then getting them broadcast on public television? There are now huge issues here with voicing any negative opinions in public about anyone being gay, or about anyone's race or colour or most any other characteristic, but it is fine to do so as part of a 'make believe' television production. Why is it so hugely offensive for these people to have negative comments made about them in reality, but apparently not when it's done in the TV world of make believe ? Arresting and incarcerating people for talking like a terrorist, without any proof that they are actually a terrorist, is drifting towards a dangerous situation of a totalitarian state, complete with thought police ... Arfa Hmmmm...this is all very true. Here in the states people (a few HS/College kids mostly) have been investigated for writing stories about Columbine-type killings. But not jailed. The problem results from not knowing who your enemy is. In wars of old, We wore one uniform, They wore another. Warfare has changed since Vietnam, and especially in dealing with the terrorists. Do we err on the side of Human Rights, and take a chance, or do we err on the side of caution and jail them in an effort to find out where they really stand? After 9/11 and July 2005 in the UK, I'm all in favor of sending them to Guantanamo until their true colors show. And, as far as 'torture' (waterboarding, sleep deprivation, hypothermia, etc) it has been borne out that we have in fact been correct so far a lot more than we have been wrong. You have to remember that these people kill with NO remorse, by the mere fact that they will take themselves out with their victims, believing it is the Will of Allah. |
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