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why 60-40 solder?
why is 63-37 eutectic solder not universally preferred?
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why 60-40 solder?
wrote in message ... why is 63-37 eutectic solder not universally preferred? It costs a bit more. |
why 60-40 solder?
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why 60-40 solder?
An old buddy of mine, his next door neighbor brother in law used to own
an old crapped out 1966 Alfa Romero convertible car.That was back in the 1970s.One afternoon, he was out there trying to patch up the rusted out floor pan of that car with a bar of straight lead.Of course, that didn't work out at all. cuhulin |
why 60-40 solder?
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why 60-40 solder?
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why 60-40 solder?
In article MiI8j.79$TZ4.1@trnddc02, mike wrote:
wrote: why is 63-37 eutectic solder not universally preferred? Because you can't sell it in the EU if it's got lead in it. You better hide under the sheets, now. The Non-Sequitur police are coming to get you. |
why 60-40 solder?
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why 60-40 solder?
"mike" wrote in message news:MiI8j.79$TZ4.1@trnddc02... wrote: why is 63-37 eutectic solder not universally preferred? Because you can't sell it in the EU if it's got lead in it. Not true at all. There are plenty of organisations that are still legally allowed to use 60/40..... Schools colleges/military/telecoms/space etc. Plus many more who don't care about lead free.... |
why 60-40 solder?
In article ,
"William Sommerwerck" wrote: wrote: why is 63-37 eutectic solder not universally preferred? Because you can't sell it in the EU if it's got lead in it. Uh... 63-37 has lead in it. The 63 is tin, the 37 lead. Traditionally, tin has been more expensive than lead, so eutectic solder cost more than 60-40. I don't think you'll find that to be true these days (i.e., last twenty years or so) because solder prices are driven more by volume than the commodity values of tin and lead. As a WAG, maybe 100 times as much 63/37 as 60/40 is sold, so I believe the premium is on the less common formulation. If you can show me a cite to the contrary, I *might* be willing to stand corrected. It has been many years since I priced 60/40. |
why 60-40 solder?
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why 60-40 solder?
In article ,
Ecnerwal wrote: In article , wrote: why is 63-37 eutectic solder not universally preferred? Because sometimes you want mush. Eutectic is either solid, or liquid. Formulations off eutectic have a range of mushiness, which can be of use. And they have higher melting points, which can be of use in multipart assemblies, where you might use 50-50, 60-40 and 63-37 to assemble and solder a series of parts. Interesting. I've not heard of this before. Do you speak from: 1 experience 2 rumor 3 speculation Not wanting to be confrontational, just curious. Wikipedia lists melting points as: 63/37: melts between 180-185°C 60/40: melts between 183-190°C 50/50: melts between 185-215°C I'm not aware of any soldering process that is able to control temperature so closely as to not melt one, while melting another of those formulations. Can you elaborate? |
why 60-40 solder?
Smitty Two wrote in
: In article , Ecnerwal wrote: In article , wrote: why is 63-37 eutectic solder not universally preferred? Because sometimes you want mush. Eutectic is either solid, or liquid. Formulations off eutectic have a range of mushiness, which can be of use. And they have higher melting points, which can be of use in multipart assemblies, where you might use 50-50, 60-40 and 63-37 to assemble and solder a series of parts. Interesting. I've not heard of this before. Do you speak from: 1 experience 2 rumor 3 speculation Not wanting to be confrontational, just curious. Wikipedia lists melting points as: 63/37: melts between 180-185°C 60/40: melts between 183-190°C 50/50: melts between 185-215°C I'm not aware of any soldering process that is able to control temperature so closely as to not melt one, while melting another of those formulations. Can you elaborate? When I worked as a process engineer for Sprague Electric Co, in the early 70's, making capacitors and resistors, we used 95/5 solder, I think it was tin/lead with a small amount of silver, to assemble the capacitors and resistors. One reason for that choice was so that the parts would withstand normal 60/40 soldering when boards were assembled. Like you, I have some doubts about the kind of close control that would be needed to use mixes as close as the ones given. -- bz 73 de N5BZ k please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an infinite set. remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap |
why 60-40 solder?
bz wrote in
98.139: 63/37: melts between 180-185°C 60/40: melts between 183-190°C 50/50: melts between 185-215°C I'm not aware of any soldering process that is able to control temperature so closely as to not melt one, while melting another of those formulations. Can you elaborate? When I worked as a process engineer for Sprague Electric Co, in the early 70's, making capacitors and resistors, we used 95/5 solder, I think it was tin/lead with a small amount of silver, to assemble the capacitors and resistors. One reason for that choice was so that the parts would withstand normal 60/40 soldering when boards were assembled. Like you, I have some doubts about the kind of close control that would be needed to use mixes as close as the ones given. I doubt it can be that accurately done. I use various indium based solders for making small assemblies of optics and electronics when I want to get different melting points, and you need well defined narrow ranges for ech solder, with at least 10 degrees apart between each rangem ideally, because an assembly might easily see several degrees variation unless you're prepared to control the conditions with expensive rigour and to wait a long time for equlibrium to settle each time you change the temperature. Two solders wth overlapping ranges for melting would be useless. |
why 60-40 solder?
mike wrote:
wrote: why is 63-37 eutectic solder not universally preferred? Because you can't sell it in the EU if it's got lead in it. Not true, most if not all UK wholesalers still sell 60/40 leaded solder. Ron(UK) |
why 60-40 solder?
why is 63-37 eutectic solder not universally preferred?
Because sometimes you want mush. Eutectic is either solid, or liquid. Formulations off eutectic have a range of mushiness, which can be of use. .... Not wanting to be confrontational, just curious. Wikipedia lists melting points as: 63/37: melts between 180-185°C 60/40: melts between 183-190°C 50/50: melts between 185-215°C I'm not aware of any soldering process that is able to control temperature so closely as to not melt one, while melting another of those formulations. Can you elaborate? It's not whether you can melt it, it's how it hardens. Eutectic solder hardens very suddenly. 60/40 solder goes through a fleeting stage of being viscous but not yet completely hard. I'd like to hear more about this, but I'm told some people prefer the "feel" of one vs. the other. |
why 60-40 solder?
In article ,
"mc" wrote: why is 63-37 eutectic solder not universally preferred? Because sometimes you want mush. Eutectic is either solid, or liquid. Formulations off eutectic have a range of mushiness, which can be of use. ... Not wanting to be confrontational, just curious. Wikipedia lists melting points as: 63/37: melts between 180-185°C 60/40: melts between 183-190°C 50/50: melts between 185-215°C I'm not aware of any soldering process that is able to control temperature so closely as to not melt one, while melting another of those formulations. Can you elaborate? It's not whether you can melt it, it's how it hardens. Eutectic solder hardens very suddenly. 60/40 solder goes through a fleeting stage of being viscous but not yet completely hard. I'd like to hear more about this, but I'm told some people prefer the "feel" of one vs. the other. If you're going to quote me, I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't snip all contextual relevance out of the discussion. As it is, your post might appear to the casual observer as bearing some relevance to the topic at hand. It may be a response to the OP, but it certainly isn't relevant to the sub-topic of sequential soldering using a variety of formulations. |
why 60-40 solder?
"Smitty Two" wrote in message
... In article , "mc" wrote: It's not whether you can melt it, it's how it hardens. Eutectic solder hardens very suddenly. 60/40 solder goes through a fleeting stage of being viscous but not yet completely hard. I'd like to hear more about this, but I'm told some people prefer the "feel" of one vs. the other. If you're going to quote me, I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't snip all contextual relevance out of the discussion. As it is, your post might appear to the casual observer as bearing some relevance to the topic at hand. It may be a response to the OP, but it certainly isn't relevant to the sub-topic of sequential soldering using a variety of formulations. I am indeed trying to discuss the original topic of the thread. The original poster's question interested me, an nobody has responded to it. |
why 60-40 solder?
I have a roll and a half of a roll of old solder, I bought back in the
1960s/1970s.A few old soldering irons too.Two of them are American Beauty (brand name) soldeing irons and another one is an Ungar with several interchangable tips in a metal box and I have a few old (I like old, old, old stuff) Weller soldering irons.My favorite kind of a soldering (electric) iron I use is an old electric wood burning iron. When you are through using some solder from a roll of solder, use some pliers to squeeze the end of the solder on the roll tight.That keeps the liquid inside of the solder roll from leaking out.I don't like the new solder.If you want lead, buy some made in China toys. cuhulin |
why 60-40 solder?
wrote in news:a232ec67-c9bd-42ad-99f3-
: why is 63-37 eutectic solder not universally preferred? Probably because the gradual solidification makes dry joints less likely. I'm not even sure it it does make them less likely, but I bet it does because you're not relying only on ductility of a solid to maintain good structure during thermal contraction. If the two metals in the alloy don't solidify together, one can flow to fill pores that might form in the other, or between the solder and the parts joined with it. |
why 60-40 solder?
Lostgallifreyan wrote:
why is 63-37 eutectic solder not universally preferred? Probably because the gradual solidification makes dry joints less likely. I'm not even sure it it does make them less likely, but I bet it does If by "dry joints" you mean what I was taught as "cold solder" -- where the solder crystallizes and looks like the dull side of a sheet of aluminum foil, then you've got it backwards. 63/37 solder passes from liquid to solid so fast that there's almost no chance for the solder to crystallize (which is usually caused by movement during the cooling phase) and so has _less_ chance of forming cold joints. 63/37 also has a lower melting point than 60/40 which means that theoretically it puts less heat stress on the component being soldered. In practice I don't think the difference in melting points makes much difference, at least for hand soldering, since the iron's tip temperature isn't controlled that tightly. But I can definitely say from personal experience that cold solder joints are much less frequent with 63/37 than 60/40. Not impossible, though. -- Gordon S. Hlavenka http://www.crashelectronics.com It's bad luck to be superstitious |
why 60-40 solder?
On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 04:31:48 GMT, Lostgallifreyan wrote:
wrote in news:a232ec67-c9bd-42ad-99f3- : why is 63-37 eutectic solder not universally preferred? Probably because the gradual solidification makes dry joints less likely. I'm not even sure it it does make them less likely, but I bet it does because you're not relying only on ductility of a solid to maintain good structure during thermal contraction. If the two metals in the alloy don't solidify together, one can flow to fill pores that might form in the other, or between the solder and the parts joined with it. From my days at Mullard in the early 1960's, I seem to remember that thermostatically controlled irons were not used, there were horrible large things like an ice pick! Multicore set the standard in the UK for many years and what they suggested/supplied was what industry used. As everything was hand soldered then, it had to be a solder and flux with as wide an operating temperature range as possible. Peter -- Peter & Rita Forbes Email: http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel http://www.stationary-engine.co.uk |
why 60-40 solder?
"Peter A Forbes" wrote in message
... Multicore set the standard in the UK for many years and what they suggested/supplied was what industry used. As everything was hand soldered then, it had to be a solder and flux with as wide an operating temperature range as possible. During my brief stint in England (1977-78) I got some Multicore solder and found it very easy to work with. Is it still available? In the USA? |
(Kester's answer) why 60-40 solder?
On 60/40 vs 63/37 solder see:
http://www.kester.com/en-us/technica...KnowledgeID=29 Kester says that because of the gradual solidification, 60/40 gives thicker coatings when you want to tin things with it. This may or may not be advantageous depending on what you're doing. |
why 60-40 solder?
mc wrote:
"Peter A Forbes" wrote in message ... Multicore set the standard in the UK for many years and what they suggested/supplied was what industry used. As everything was hand soldered then, it had to be a solder and flux with as wide an operating temperature range as possible. During my brief stint in England (1977-78) I got some Multicore solder and found it very easy to work with. Is it still available? In the USA? Ersin Multicore Savbit, 5 core solder. lovely stuff, it has a small percentage of copper added to the alloy to preserve bit life, and still available in the UK. Ron |
why 60-40 solder?
mc wrote:
"Peter A Forbes" wrote in message ... Multicore set the standard in the UK for many years and what they suggested/supplied was what industry used. As everything was hand soldered then, it had to be a solder and flux with as wide an operating temperature range as possible. During my brief stint in England (1977-78) I got some Multicore solder and found it very easy to work with. Is it still available? In the USA? I refer the honourable gentlemen to the following data http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/85070.pdf Ron |
why 60-40 solder?
One of my old Popular Mechanics (maybe it was Popular Science) magazines
I read back in the 1960s had an article about how to solder anything.Get a small round wire brush for your electric drill (drill motor) and load the brush up real good with solder.Apply the loaded up with solder wire brush to a piece of wood, plastic, whatever, and you can solder a piece of wire to the whatever.I never tried it out though. cuhulin |
why 60-40 solder?
wrote in message
... One of my old Popular Mechanics (maybe it was Popular Science) magazines I read back in the 1960s had an article about how to solder anything.Get a small round wire brush for your electric drill (drill motor) and load the brush up real good with solder.Apply the loaded up with solder wire brush to a piece of wood, plastic, whatever, and you can solder a piece of wire to the whatever.I never tried it out though. This is a joke, right? First you're telling us about nails made red-hot by microwaves, now you're telling us how to solder to plastic. |
why 60-40 solder?
If it is a joke(s), then I guess the hard back book about the magnetron
and my old magnazine I read about soldering anything are jokes.Page 103 in my January 2008 Popular Science magazine has an ad about Chrome Anything.The ad says, Now you can chrome wood, plastic, metal, even ceramic with no special equipment required.Seeing is Believing.Real mirror finish.Get your sample at www.alsacorp.com or by phone at (323) 581 5200 cuhulin |
why 60-40 solder?
wrote:
If it is a joke(s), then I guess the hard back book about the magnetron and my old magnazine I read about soldering anything are jokes.Page 103 in my January 2008 Popular Science magazine has an ad about Chrome Anything.The ad says, Now you can chrome wood, plastic, metal, even ceramic with no special equipment required.Seeing is Believing.Real mirror finish.Get your sample at www.alsacorp.com or by phone at (323) 581 5200 cuhulin x ray spex anyone? |
why 60-40 solder?
On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 09:18:04 -0500, "mc"
wrote: "Peter A Forbes" wrote in message .. . Multicore set the standard in the UK for many years and what they suggested/supplied was what industry used. As everything was hand soldered then, it had to be a solder and flux with as wide an operating temperature range as possible. During my brief stint in England (1977-78) I got some Multicore solder and found it very easy to work with. Is it still available? In the USA? Multicore is now owned by Henkel, and the solder products seem to have been dropped, although solder pastes etc are still produced. We buy our cored solder in from France. Peter -- Peter A Forbes Prepair Ltd, Rushden, UK http://www.prepair.co.uk http://www.prepair.eu |
why 60-40 solder?
wrote in message
... If it is a joke(s), then I guess the hard back book about the magnetron and my old magnazine I read about soldering anything are jokes. Page 103 in my January 2008 Popular Science magazine has an ad about Chrome Anything.The ad says, Now you can chrome wood, plastic, metal, even ceramic with no special equipment required.Seeing is Believing. Real mirror finish.Get your sample at www.alsacorp.com or by phone at (323) 581 5200 But this isn't the same thing. Chrome and other metals have commonly been applied to plastics. The Polaroid SX-70 is an outstanding example, but hardly the only one. Metal plating is usually done by applying copper layer to the plastic, then electroplating. Soldering is not plating. Soldering consists of forming an alloy bond between two metals. |
why 60-40 solder?
In article , "William Sommerwerck" wrote:
wrote in message ... why is 63-37 eutectic solder not universally preferred? It costs a bit more. If you wiggle the connection. you have a lot better chance of making a connection with 60-40. First thing I think of. greg |
why 60-40 solder?
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why 60-40 solder?
About thirty years ago, I read an article in a motorcycle magazine.The
article was about do not solder up wire connections.Article stated that vibrations can make those rigid soldered up connections break loose. cuhulin |
why 60-40 solder?
Get a straight bar of lead and a gas torch and try to ''fix'' a rusted
out floor belly pan on a 1966 Alfa Romero convertible car. Tell her I Love her. cuhulin |
why 60-40 solder?
wrote in message
... About thirty years ago, I read an article in a motorcycle magazine.The article was about do not solder up wire connections.Article stated that vibrations can make those rigid soldered up connections break loose. So what keeps the connection "connected", if not solder? Are the wires wrapped around a bolt and nut? That isn't very stable. What about wire nuts (which are commonly used in household wiring)? |
why 60-40 solder?
huh ????
that solder has 37 % lead in it.!!!! and thats crap , i work in a company that uses exclusively 60-40 solder and we ship weekly 3500 pcbs a week to the eu . where u get your info ? all "mike" wrote in message news:MiI8j.79$TZ4.1@trnddc02... wrote: why is 63-37 eutectic solder not universally preferred? Because you can't sell it in the EU if it's got lead in it. |
why 60-40 solder?
all
"mike" wrote in message news:MiI8j.79$TZ4.1@trnddc02... wrote: why is 63-37 eutectic solder not universally preferred? Because you can't sell it in the EU if it's got lead in it. "mark krawczuk" wrote in message ... huh ???? that solder has 37 % lead in it.!!!! and thats crap , i work in a company that uses exclusively 60-40 solder and we ship weekly 3500 pcbs a week to the eu . where u get your info ? When the EU find out, how you get out of jail ? Arfa |
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