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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
Posted to sci.electronics.repair, rec.audio.pro, rec.audio.tech
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This is a TOTAL MYSTERY....
Help! I need a fresh pair of eyes to look at a VERY mysterious problem I am having with a repair. I am repairing a 582 that has lost the ability to record/erase tapes. I have replaced the faulty caps in the bias oscillator and checked the frequency. The bias oscillator function has been restored and is right on spec. I was just about to start checking/calibrating the deck's EX/SX/ZX record bias, when the deck lost its ability to go into PLAY mode. It simply cannot enter PLAY mode. When you hit PLAY, the deck goes into PAUSE mode instead. PAUSE = PAUSE PLAY = PAUSE I have checked the reference voltage at the sliding contact of the cam control 10k volume pot, and the voltage is definitely LOW for both PLAY and PAUSE functions. PLAY voltage reads 1.04VDC. PAUSE voltage is identical. It's as if PLAY and PAUSE functions have merged and are now the EXACT same PAUSE function, with a complete loss of PLAY function. Adjusting VR401 (the Play mode voltage adjuster) does nothing. A preliminary check of all related transistors and diodes on the logic board has produced no clues. Everything checks out OK. I am starting to suspect op amp 4558C (IC405), but am not sure how to proceed. SOME INFO: The Play and Pause modes both involve negative DC voltages. The 10k "volume" pot previously mentioned is an internal motor- driven pot that gets voltages directly from the deck's logic board. This pot SHOULD be getting slightly less than 3VDC in PLAY mode, but instead gets just over 1VDC. Here is the service manual: http://www.analogstereo.com/nakamich...ice_manual.pdf What should I be checking that I haven't checked already? Any help with this "tough dog" will be most appreciated. |
#2
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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This is a TOTAL MYSTERY....
On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 19:38:59 -0800 (PST), EADGBE
wrote: What should I be checking that I haven't checked already? Replace the open "stop" lamp. And wire a several hundred Ohm resistor across it to prevent future logic issues. All good fortune, Chris Hornbeck |
#3
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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This is a TOTAL MYSTERY....
"Chris Hornbeck" wrote in message ... On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 19:38:59 -0800 (PST), EADGBE wrote: What should I be checking that I haven't checked already? Replace the open "stop" lamp. And wire a several hundred Ohm resistor across it to prevent future logic issues. All good fortune, **Bugger! Beat me to it. I concur. Trevor Wilson |
#4
Posted to sci.electronics.repair, rec.audio.pro, rec.audio.tech
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This is a TOTAL MYSTERY....
Thanks for the tip, but the stop lamp is the very first thing I checked. It is working just fine. If it were just the stop lamp, the deck would go into the PLAY mode, but then it would immediately stop. This deck physically cannot go into PLAY mode. The heads only come up as far as the PAUSE position. They never engage the tape, and the pinch rollers never touch the capstans. This is due to an improper control voltage, but I am going crazy trying to find the point at which the voltage drops. All of the logic board components I have checked so far check out OK. The two voltage regulators are spot-on. No issues whatsoever. Perfect +12 and -12 DC voltage output from them. I have found one or two resistors with a positive voltage on one end and a negative voltage on the other, which may or may not be a clue. |
#5
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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This is a TOTAL MYSTERY....
On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 07:14:37 -0500, EADGBE wrote
(in article ): Thanks for the tip, but the stop lamp is the very first thing I checked. It is working just fine. If it were just the stop lamp, the deck would go into the PLAY mode, but then it would immediately stop. This deck physically cannot go into PLAY mode. The heads only come up as far as the PAUSE position. They never engage the tape, and the pinch rollers never touch the capstans. This is due to an improper control voltage, but I am going crazy trying to find the point at which the voltage drops. All of the logic board components I have checked so far check out OK. The two voltage regulators are spot-on. No issues whatsoever. Perfect +12 and -12 DC voltage output from them. I have found one or two resistors with a positive voltage on one end and a negative voltage on the other, which may or may not be a clue. Is there, by any chance, a hardwired remote control jack that needs a dummy plug like the old Revox A77? Regards, Ty Ford --Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU |
#6
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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This is a TOTAL MYSTERY....
"EADGBE" wrote in message ... Thanks for the tip, but the stop lamp is the very first thing I checked. It is working just fine. If it were just the stop lamp, the deck would go into the PLAY mode, but then it would immediately stop. This deck physically cannot go into PLAY mode. The heads only come up as far as the PAUSE position. They never engage the tape, and the pinch rollers never touch the capstans. This is due to an improper control voltage, but I am going crazy trying to find the point at which the voltage drops. All of the logic board components I have checked so far check out OK. The two voltage regulators are spot-on. No issues whatsoever. Perfect +12 and -12 DC voltage output from them. I have found one or two resistors with a positive voltage on one end and a negative voltage on the other, which may or may not be a clue. **Just a wild thought: Do the pinch rollers move freely on their pivots? If the pinch rollers are jamming.... Trevor Wilson |
#7
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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This is a TOTAL MYSTERY....
On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 06:57:57 +1100, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote: "EADGBE" wrote in message ... Thanks for the tip, but the stop lamp is the very first thing I checked. It is working just fine. **Just a wild thought: Do the pinch rollers move freely on their pivots? If the pinch rollers are jamming.... Gummed up pinch roller arm pivots are so common, these several decades down the road, that a truly serious rework should include removing the rocker arms for washing to remove all the old wax (it ain't grease any more) and relube. Auto wheel bearing grease is great, and easily available. We're all assuming that the little guy has a good control motor belt (the one that pulls the head bridge up and down), the number one failure of the classic Naks, and that the head bridge moves freely. Oh, and does the take-up reel rotation sensor lamp still work? All good fortune, and keep us updated, Chris Hornbeck |
#8
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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This is a TOTAL MYSTERY....
"Chris Hornbeck" wrote in message ... On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 19:38:59 -0800 (PST), EADGBE wrote: What should I be checking that I haven't checked already? Replace the open "stop" lamp. And wire a several hundred Ohm resistor across it to prevent future logic issues. All good fortune, Chris Hornbeck Dang! I guess I did hear about lamps on these back in the day... Oh, well - at least got a free PDF service manual out of it... ;-) Mark Z. |
#9
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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This is a TOTAL MYSTERY....
"EADGBE" wrote in message ... Help! I need a fresh pair of eyes to look at a VERY mysterious problem I am having with a repair. I am repairing a 582 that has lost the ability to record/erase tapes. I have replaced the faulty caps in the bias oscillator and checked the frequency. The bias oscillator function has been restored and is right on spec. I was just about to start checking/calibrating the deck's EX/SX/ZX record bias, when the deck lost its ability to go into PLAY mode. It simply cannot enter PLAY mode. When you hit PLAY, the deck goes into PAUSE mode instead. PAUSE = PAUSE PLAY = PAUSE I have checked the reference voltage at the sliding contact of the cam control 10k volume pot, and the voltage is definitely LOW for both PLAY and PAUSE functions. PLAY voltage reads 1.04VDC. PAUSE voltage is identical. It's as if PLAY and PAUSE functions have merged and are now the EXACT same PAUSE function, with a complete loss of PLAY function. Adjusting VR401 (the Play mode voltage adjuster) does nothing. A preliminary check of all related transistors and diodes on the logic board has produced no clues. Everything checks out OK. I am starting to suspect op amp 4558C (IC405), but am not sure how to proceed. SOME INFO: The Play and Pause modes both involve negative DC voltages. The 10k "volume" pot previously mentioned is an internal motor- driven pot that gets voltages directly from the deck's logic board. This pot SHOULD be getting slightly less than 3VDC in PLAY mode, but instead gets just over 1VDC. Here is the service manual: http://www.analogstereo.com/nakamich...ice_manual.pdf What should I be checking that I haven't checked already? Any help with this "tough dog" will be most appreciated. Does the Timer Play function work normally? Mark Z. |
#10
Posted to sci.electronics.repair, rec.audio.pro, rec.audio.tech
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This is a TOTAL MYSTERY....
On Dec 5, 7:15 am, "Mark D. Zacharias"
wrote: Does the Timer Play function work normally? Mark Z. Mark: I tried it. No, the deck cannot enter PLAY mode under any circumstances. |
#11
Posted to sci.electronics.repair, rec.audio.pro, rec.audio.tech
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This is a TOTAL MYSTERY....
On Dec 5, 7:47 am, EADGBE wrote:
On Dec 5, 7:15 am, "Mark D. Zacharias" wrote: Does the Timer Play function work normally? Mark Z. Mark: I tried it. No, the deck cannot enter PLAY mode under any circumstances. 1) was it able to enter play before the bias osc was repaired? 2) is the timer switch in record mode? 3) I think the voltage you are reading at the wiper is the voltage from the pot and indicates what position the cam is in. You need also to read the volatge that the machine is commaning the motor to go to so sometinh is amiss with the circuit around Q430 in fig 2.3.22 4) see fig 2.3.22 what is the voltage at Q430 collector in play and pause. This is an interesting circuit, it looks like the macinh gnerates a voltage for each mode and then the motor moves the cam until it is in the correct position to null the voltage at the op amp...so you have determined that the cam is not moving correctly by reading the pot voltage, but you need to determine is the voiltage wrong becasue the circuit is getting the wrong commmand or maybe it is physically stuck and unable to move to the correct position. 5) The votage on the op amp IC405 input pins 6 and 5 should be "virtually" equal. If they are not equal, then the there should be a voltage on the motor and it should be trying to turn. If they are equal, then the mechinsim is doing what it is told and it is being told to do the wrong thing and the problem is in the command voltage inputs. 6) It looks like the only differnce in the comman between play and pasue is due to the different values of R511 and R514. Make sure the logic signal to them is correct. These different values shoulsd create a differnet input to the op amp and the motor should move and move the cam pot so the voltage on pin 6 and 5 is equal again. This is a big mechanical feedback loop that tries to keep the voltage on pin 6 and 5 equal. Very nice manual by the way...thanks good luck , let us know what you find. Mark |
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