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Why 60 hertz or 50hert
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello everyone... Good day. Im noticed some devices like motors, appliances or any electronic devices used differents rated of hertz liked our TV used 60 hertz some TV used 50 Hz others rated 50~60. I know that every countries have there own standard of hertz...My question is there any effect with the performance of a motor or any kind of electronic devices if they used with different rate of hertz. Is the rate of hertz has effect the design, size of the wire and number of turns of wire..etc.. when creating a new electronic devices... Don |
Why 60 hertz or 50hert
donskister wrote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello everyone... Good day. Im noticed some devices like motors, appliances or any electronic devices used differents rated of hertz liked our TV used 60 hertz some TV used 50 Hz others rated 50~60. I know that every countries have there own standard of hertz...My question is there any effect with the performance of a motor or any kind of electronic devices if they used with different rate of hertz. Is the rate of hertz has effect the design, size of the wire and number of turns of wire..etc.. when creating a new electronic devices... There often is an effect but many ( most ) products are made to work fine on either. Maybe you could be more specific if you have a concern about this. Graham |
Why 60 hertz or 50hert
donskister wrote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello everyone... Good day. Im noticed some devices like motors, appliances or any electronic devices used differents rated of hertz liked our TV used 60 hertz some TV used 50 Hz others rated 50~60. I know that every countries have there own standard of hertz...My question is there any effect with the performance of a motor or any kind of electronic devices if they used with different rate of hertz. Is the rate of hertz has effect the design, size of the wire and number of turns of wire..etc.. when creating a new electronic devices... Don Motors will turn at the wrong speed if not used at their rated Hz. 60Hz transformers can overheat if used at 50Hz. The lower the frequency, the heavier the xformer (more iron, more wire). Transformers can overheat There is a potentialfor |
Why 60 hertz or 50hert
"donskister" wrote in message oups.com... Good day. Im noticed some devices like motors, appliances or any electronic devices used differents rated of hertz liked our TV used 60 hertz some TV used 50 Hz others rated 50~60. 60 Hz needs less iron but has higher losses. |
Why 60 hertz or 50hert
Bennett Price wrote: donskister wrote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello everyone... Good day. Im noticed some devices like motors, appliances or any electronic devices used differents rated of hertz liked our TV used 60 hertz some TV used 50 Hz others rated 50~60. I know that every countries have there own standard of hertz...My question is there any effect with the performance of a motor or any kind of electronic devices if they used with different rate of hertz. Is the rate of hertz has effect the design, size of the wire and number of turns of wire..etc.. when creating a new electronic devices... Don Motors will turn at the wrong speed if not used at their rated Hz. Not all motors by any means. 60Hz transformers can overheat if used at 50Hz. This is why most are designed to be 50/60 Hz. The lower the frequency, the heavier the xformer (more iron, more wire). Transformers can overheat There is a potentialfor Can being the relevant word. It depends on the product. Graham |
Why 60 hertz or 50hert
Eeyore writes:
donskister wrote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello everyone... Good day. Im noticed some devices like motors, appliances or any electronic devices used differents rated of hertz liked our TV used 60 hertz some TV used 50 Hz others rated 50~60. I know that every countries have there own standard of hertz...My question is there any effect with the performance of a motor or any kind of electronic devices if they used with different rate of hertz. Is the rate of hertz has effect the design, size of the wire and number of turns of wire..etc.. when creating a new electronic devices... There often is an effect but many ( most ) products are made to work fine on either. Maybe you could be more specific if you have a concern about this. Also see: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/pwrfaq.htm#ipslfi --- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/ Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/ +Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm | Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs. |
Why 60 hertz or 50hert
donskister wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello everyone... Good day. Im noticed some devices like motors, appliances or any electronic devices used differents rated of hertz liked our TV used 60 hertz some TV used 50 Hz others rated 50~60. I know that every countries have there own standard of hertz...My question is there any effect with the performance of a motor or any kind of electronic devices if they used with different rate of hertz. Is the rate of hertz has effect the design, size of the wire and number of turns of wire..etc.. when creating a new electronic devices... Don The US and some countries use 60hz, Canada uses 50hz or used to as does Europe. Some countries use 30hz. The military uses 400hz power in many applications. What I don't get is how can the US grid be tied to the Canadian grid as we sell power back and forth with different freqencies. I know they make phase converters (that is how the military gets 400hz) but seems like a gigantic waste converting back and forth. |
Why 60 hertz or 50hert
Paul Bunion wrote:
donskister wrote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello everyone... Good day. Im noticed some devices like motors, appliances or any electronic devices used differents rated of hertz liked our TV used 60 hertz some TV used 50 Hz others rated 50~60. I know that every countries have there own standard of hertz...My question is there any effect with the performance of a motor or any kind of electronic devices if they used with different rate of hertz. Is the rate of hertz has effect the design, size of the wire and number of turns of wire..etc.. when creating a new electronic devices... Don The US and some countries use 60hz, Canada uses 50hz or used to as does Europe. Some countries use 30hz. The military uses 400hz power in many applications. What I don't get is how can the US grid be tied to the Canadian grid as we sell power back and forth with different freqencies. I know they make phase converters (that is how the military gets 400hz) but seems like a gigantic waste converting back and forth. Imagine plugging a 60hz motor into a 400hz outlet! You gonna crank some rpm's. |
Why 60 hertz or 50hert
"Paul Bunion" wrote in message news:Ipodh.1978$QD3.444@trndny01... Imagine plugging a 60hz motor into a 400hz outlet! You gonna crank some rpm's. 400 is used for aircraft and in some specialized shops. |
Why 60 hertz or 50hert
"Paul Bunion" wrote in message news:Mnodh.1977$QD3.212@trndny01... The US and some countries use 60hz, Canada uses 50hz or used to Nope. 60 Hz although some generators were 25 hertz (but no more - see http://www.iaw.com/~falls/power.html) |
Why 60 hertz or 50hert
Paul Bunion wrote: Some countries use 30hz 30 ? Where ? Graham |
Why 60 hertz or 50hert
Paul Bunion wrote: The military uses 400hz power in many applications. And aerospace. It keeps the weight of transformers down. Graham |
Why 60 hertz or 50hert
Paul Bunion wrote:
donskister wrote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello everyone... Good day. Im noticed some devices like motors, appliances or any electronic devices used differents rated of hertz liked our TV used 60 hertz some TV used 50 Hz others rated 50~60. I know that every countries have there own standard of hertz...My question is there any effect with the performance of a motor or any kind of electronic devices if they used with different rate of hertz. Is the rate of hertz has effect the design, size of the wire and number of turns of wire..etc.. when creating a new electronic devices... Don The US and some countries use 60hz, Canada uses 50hz or used to as does Europe. Some countries use 30hz. The military uses 400hz power in many applications. What I don't get is how can the US grid be tied to the Canadian grid as we sell power back and forth with different freqencies. I know they make phase converters (that is how the military gets 400hz) but seems like a gigantic waste converting back and forth. Canada has been 60Hz for as long as I've been alive. The power grid is directly interconnected with the US grid. |
Why 60 hertz or 50hert
Eeyore wrote:
Paul Bunion wrote: The military uses 400hz power in many applications. And aerospace. It keeps the weight of transformers down. Graham Transformers, motors, alternators, it's all smaller. |
Why 60 hertz or 50hert
James Sweet wrote: Eeyore wrote: Paul Bunion wrote: The military uses 400hz power in many applications. And aerospace. It keeps the weight of transformers down. Graham Transformers, motors, alternators, it's all smaller. I hadn't thought of motors and alternators too. The A380's using variable frequency alternators btw to make even further weight savings. Graham |
Why 60 hertz or 50hert
Yeah, imagine having to make parts of niagara falls flow at
different rates to accommodate the two standards. James Sweet wrote: Canada has been 60Hz for as long as I've been alive. The power grid is directly interconnected with the US grid. |
Why 60 hertz or 50hert
No, not all motors -- but virtually any induction motor will
be affected, and there are lots of them out there. Even electromechanical pinball machines were made with different motors for 50 vs 60 hz. And I'm not sure why you think "most" transformers are designed to be used at 50 or 60 Hz. You would have to derate them from 60 Hz operation making them bigger, heavier, and more expensive. How much of your consumer electronics is overdesigned? Eeyore wrote: Bennett Price wrote: donskister wrote: Motors will turn at the wrong speed if not used at their rated Hz. Not all motors by any means. 60Hz transformers can overheat if used at 50Hz. This is why most are designed to be 50/60 Hz. |
Why 60 hertz or 50hert
Paul Bunion wrote:
donskister wrote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello everyone... Good day. Im noticed some devices like motors, appliances or any electronic devices used differents rated of hertz liked our TV used 60 hertz some TV used 50 Hz others rated 50~60. I know that every countries have there own standard of hertz...My question is there any effect with the performance of a motor or any kind of electronic devices if they used with different rate of hertz. Is the rate of hertz has effect the design, size of the wire and number of turns of wire..etc.. when creating a new electronic devices... Don The US and some countries use 60hz, Canada uses 50hz or used to as does Europe. Some countries use 30hz. The military uses 400hz power in many applications. What I don't get is how can the US grid be tied to the Canadian grid as we sell power back and forth with different freqencies. I know they make phase converters (that is how the military gets 400hz) but seems like a gigantic waste converting back and forth. Canada converted to 60 Hz back in the 50's. Regards Lee in Toronto |
Why 60 hertz or 50hert
M Berger wrote: No, not all motors -- but virtually any induction motor will be affected, and there are lots of them out there. Even electromechanical pinball machines were made with different motors for 50 vs 60 hz. And I'm not sure why you think "most" transformers are designed to be used at 50 or 60 Hz. You would have to derate them from 60 Hz operation making them bigger, heavier, and more expensive. How much of your consumer electronics is overdesigned? Suppliers to the world market usually design for 50/60 Hz since 60Hz use is quite rare on the global scale of things. 60Hz only transformers tend to be the speciality of the USA. Graham Eeyore wrote: Bennett Price wrote: donskister wrote: Motors will turn at the wrong speed if not used at their rated Hz. Not all motors by any means. 60Hz transformers can overheat if used at 50Hz. This is why most are designed to be 50/60 Hz. |
Why 60 hertz or 50hert
Many long distance feeds are now HVDC, which deals with the frequency
difference problem just fine. I believe parts of Japan are 50 Hz and other parts are 60. I've never heard about 30 Hz, but the swedish railroads use 16 2/3 Hz (50/3) for the trains. The store behind this was that that was such a low frequency that they could use DC motors in the early electrical locomotives. I live by the railroad, and when I was using a CRT monitor I could see when a train approached from the north, as the current to drive the train induced a strong magnetic field at 16 2/3 Hz, and the picture would wobble slightly. |
Why 60 hertz or 50hert
Thomas Tornblom wrote:
Many long distance feeds are now HVDC, which deals with the frequency difference problem just fine. I believe parts of Japan are 50 Hz and other parts are 60. I've never heard about 30 Hz, but the swedish railroads use 16 2/3 Hz (50/3) for the trains. The store behind this was that that was such a low frequency that they could use DC motors in the early electrical locomotives. I live by the railroad, and when I was using a CRT monitor I could see when a train approached from the north, as the current to drive the train induced a strong magnetic field at 16 2/3 Hz, and the picture would wobble slightly. Dc motors wont work on ac of any frequency. Low frequencies used in traction improve the motors' starting torque, and of course this is important. I've got a very old domestic appliance that claims to handle 25Hz, but where 25Hz was ever found in homes in UK I dont know. I wonder if a few old private gen plants used it at the time, and they thought theyd corner the market, but am far from convinced. NT |
Why 60 hertz or 50hert
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Why 60 hertz or 50hert
wrote in message ups.com... Dc motors wont work on ac of any frequency. Not necessarily true. Clearly they work on ZF, and would continue to work until the motor impedance became significant. |
Why 60 hertz or 50hert
Eeyore wrote:
Paul Bunion wrote: Some countries use 30hz 30 ? Where ? Graham Actually, it was 25 Hz and it was used in areas around mines. -- Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to prove it. Member of DAV #85. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
Why 60 hertz or 50hert
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Why 60 hertz or 50hert
Thomas Tornblom wrote:
writes: Dc motors wont work on ac of any frequency. Well, that depends on the type of DC motor, doesn't it? There are motors that work just fine on either AC or DC. then they arent dc motors. Not often one has to state something quite that obvious. NT |
Why 60 hertz or 50hert
Homer J Simpson wrote:
wrote in message ups.com... Dc motors wont work on ac of any frequency. Not necessarily true. Clearly they work on ZF, yes and would continue to work until the motor impedance became significant. no. A dc motor is by definition one that runs on dc only. Typically these are permanent magnet motors, in which direction of rotation depends on polarity. Motor impedance is not the issue. Motor impedance is the issue with universal or ac/dc motors. NT |
Why 60 hertz or 50hert
writes:
Dc motors wont work on ac of any frequency. Low frequencies used in traction improve the motors' starting torque, and of course this is important. Not quite true. Series wound DC motors (often called "universal" motors) work on AC and DC. Frequency is a don't care. Often used in cheap appliances, like mixers or hair dryers. Steve. -- Steven D. Swift, , http://www.novatech-instr.com NOVATECH INSTRUMENTS, INC. P.O. Box 55997 206.301.8986, fax 206.363.4367 Seattle, Washington 98155 USA |
Why 60 hertz or 50hert
wrote in message ups.com... Thomas Tornblom wrote: writes: Dc motors wont work on ac of any frequency. Well, that depends on the type of DC motor, doesn't it? There are motors that work just fine on either AC or DC. then they arent dc motors. Not often one has to state something quite that obvious. And yet they are called AC/DC motors. And run on either. Seems you need to take a course - or two - before correcting others. |
Why 60 hertz or 50hert
wrote in message oups.com... Dc motors wont work on ac of any frequency. Not necessarily true. Clearly they work on ZF, yes and would continue to work until the motor impedance became significant. no. A dc motor is by definition one that runs on dc only. Typically these are permanent magnet motors, in which direction of rotation depends on polarity. Motor impedance is not the issue. Motor impedance is the issue with universal or ac/dc motors. Nope. I doubt anyone has EVER built a traction motor with permanent magnets. |
Why 60 hertz or 50hert
Eeyore wrote:
Suppliers to the world market usually design for 50/60 Hz since 60Hz use is quite rare on the global scale of things. 60Hz only transformers tend to be the speciality of the USA. Still trolling? Sci.electronics.design not big enough for all your nonsense? What transformers are you talking about? Those cheap, imported Chinese wall warts, or pole pigs? Just about everything else is built with a SMPS. Why waste both iron and copper to build 50 Hz transformers for the domestic market? You just can't wait to get in another of your anti America digs, can you? -- Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to prove it. Member of DAV #85. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
Why 60 hertz or 50hert
Homer J Simpson wrote:
wrote in message ups.com... Thomas Tornblom wrote: writes: Dc motors wont work on ac of any frequency. Well, that depends on the type of DC motor, doesn't it? There are motors that work just fine on either AC or DC. then they arent dc motors. Not often one has to state something quite that obvious. And yet they are called AC/DC motors. And run on either. precisely, not dc motors. NT |
Why 60 hertz or 50hert
M Berger wrote: Yeah, imagine having to make parts of niagara falls flow at different rates to accommodate the two standards. James Sweet wrote: Canada has been 60Hz for as long as I've been alive. The power grid is directly interconnected with the US grid. How do you think they control the frequency? They adjust the water flow through the turbines to get the required speed. They have to match the speed and phase of the grid before they can connect, then they increase the water flow till the generator is producing the desired current. It would be very easy to change the speed, but it would make more sense to use an alternator designed for the desired frequency. |
Why 60 hertz or 50hert
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Why 60 hertz or 50hert
"CJT" wrote in message ... wrote: It would be very easy to change the speed, but it would make more sense to use an alternator designed for the desired frequency. ... which one would then need to run at the correct speed. And it is (or was) the practice to run an AC clock off the output and trim the speed to keep it at the correct time using another reference. That way all of the AC clocks in town would stay in time. |
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