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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
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duplicating phone and ring voltage
I need to connect some telephone-type things together in my own little
circuit, and test them, but I don't know a simple method or what voltages to use. I think I need to use some wire, some kind of DC power, something to put a ring-signal on the line, a phone, and whatever I am testing. For example, I'm getting a replacement for my all-time favorite phone answering machine, but the owner has forgotten the 3-digit code for remote message retrieval. I'm willing to try all 900 or 1000, probably while I'm watching tv, but only if I can get it to go quickly. So I need a test line to ring it directly, have the machine answer, and punch in the code. Also I have 2 fax machines, one that sends and one that receives! I'm pretty sure I can get it down to one that does both. I don't have two phone lines, and even if I did, I think things would run quicker with my own little circuit. In the 7th grade, we had two candlestick phones and a dry cell to play with during ham radio club, and everything worked (except it didn't ring, but that was ok because they had no bells. ) Any help appreciated. |
#2
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duplicating phone and ring voltage
Phones need 48 Volts DC with an in series of 600 to 800 ohm source. The ring
is 96 Volts at 25 Hz. For the answering machine, if it is a name brand, you should be able to get the information about how to reset the remote code. If it is a fixed uninique code, then you have a problem. For what it is worth, maybe it would be better to simply get a new answering machine. -- JANA _____ "mm" wrote in message ... I need to connect some telephone-type things together in my own little circuit, and test them, but I don't know a simple method or what voltages to use. I think I need to use some wire, some kind of DC power, something to put a ring-signal on the line, a phone, and whatever I am testing. For example, I'm getting a replacement for my all-time favorite phone answering machine, but the owner has forgotten the 3-digit code for remote message retrieval. I'm willing to try all 900 or 1000, probably while I'm watching tv, but only if I can get it to go quickly. So I need a test line to ring it directly, have the machine answer, and punch in the code. Also I have 2 fax machines, one that sends and one that receives! I'm pretty sure I can get it down to one that does both. I don't have two phone lines, and even if I did, I think things would run quicker with my own little circuit. In the 7th grade, we had two candlestick phones and a dry cell to play with during ham radio club, and everything worked (except it didn't ring, but that was ok because they had no bells. ) Any help appreciated. |
#3
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duplicating phone and ring voltage
"JANA" wrote in message
... snip I'm willing to try all 900 or 1000, probably while I'm watching tv, but only if I can get it to go quickly. So I need a test line to ring it directly, have the machine answer, and punch in the code. snip Jana: Seems like a lot of effort for short money (bad ROI)? What Make and Model is this unit? I bet we could find you one on e-Bay that doesn't entail hooking up multiple 12 volt batteries in series and punching in a possible 1,000 codes to get it to work! Do you really want to sit amongst multiple car batteries in your living room watching TV punching in codes all night and then recharging them, trying 1,000 possible codes is going to take some time and will probably require one, or more, recharges. Just my $.02 worth. Voicemail!!!! Jay |
#4
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duplicating phone and ring voltage
In article ,
JANA wrote: Phones need 48 Volts DC with an in series of 600 to 800 ohm source. The ring is 96 Volts at 25 Hz. That's the spec to allow for vast voltage drop over the miles of cable between phones. Just to get two to talk to one another 9 volts will work just ok. Indeed if you're talking about old non electronics phones with carbon mics 1.5 volts will be ok for short runs. -- *Proofread carefully to see if you any words out or mispeld something * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#5
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duplicating phone and ring voltage
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , JANA wrote: Phones need 48 Volts DC with an in series of 600 to 800 ohm source. The ring is 96 Volts at 25 Hz. That's the spec to allow for vast voltage drop over the miles of cable between phones. Just to get two to talk to one another 9 volts will work just ok. Indeed if you're talking about old non electronics phones with carbon mics 1.5 volts will be ok for short runs. I have always used the assumptions that there was 400 Ohms in the telephone. The telephone wants 20 milli-Amps or more so that says you need 8 Volts or more (per phone) The 48 Volts (really 52) that the central office uses is to push at least 20 milli-Amps through the longest line. Bill K7NOM |
#6
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duplicating phone and ring voltage
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 04:10:17 -0500, "JANA" wrote:
Phones need 48 Volts DC with an in series of 600 to 800 ohm source. The ring is 96 Volts at 25 Hz. Thanks a lot. For the answering machine, if it is a name brand, you should be able to get the information about how to reset the remote code. If it is a fixed uninique code, then you have a problem. It is a fixed code. A friend of mine and I each bought one 21 years ago, and the code was printed on the box, not on the bottom of the unit that became more common. I wish it had been on the bottom; we would still have it! This new one is from the wife of a friend, and she stopped using it a couple years ago and has forgotten the code. It's Code-a-Phone, model 2530 or similar model. For what it is worth, maybe it would be better to simply get a new answering machine. Like I say, this is my all-time favorite phone machine. I have about 10 others, all different brands or models, that I've bought in the last 2 or 3 years, paying 1 to 3 dollars each at hamfests. They all work as designed but I don't like how they work. |
#7
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duplicating phone and ring voltage
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 18:34:54 -0500, mm
wrote: It is a fixed code. A friend of mine and I each bought one 21 years ago, and the code was printed on the box, not on the bottom of the unit that became more common. I wish it had been on the bottom; we would still have it! This new one is from the wife of a friend, and she stopped using it a couple years ago and has forgotten the code. It's Code-a-Phone, model 2530 or similar model. Found this in google for a Code-a-Phone model 2600. "Not sure of the model number, but it sounds familiar. If it is the little black one with gold trim and the digital outgoing message, then the remote code is determinded by two things; a sticker on the bottom with a single digit (ie '7') and a switch with two numbers. ('3' or '9') The sticker determines the first digit, the switch selects the second digit. This may be true for yours, look on the bottom for a sticker with a single number; then look for the switch, it may be hidden." http://groups.google.ca/group/sci.electronics.repair/browse_frm/thread/53a6aaf7777ac05b/86ce2349e56f35b4?lnk=st&q=answering+machine+remote +control+code&rnum=4&hl=en#86ce2349e56f35b4 |
#8
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duplicating phone and ring voltage
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#10
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duplicating phone and ring voltage
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 18:34:54 -0500, mm put
finger to keyboard and composed: On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 04:10:17 -0500, "JANA" wrote: Phones need 48 Volts DC with an in series of 600 to 800 ohm source. The ring is 96 Volts at 25 Hz. Thanks a lot. For the answering machine, if it is a name brand, you should be able to get the information about how to reset the remote code. If it is a fixed uninique code, then you have a problem. It is a fixed code. A friend of mine and I each bought one 21 years ago, and the code was printed on the box, not on the bottom of the unit that became more common. I wish it had been on the bottom; we would still have it! This new one is from the wife of a friend, and she stopped using it a couple years ago and has forgotten the code. So you have another identical unit? Is it an analogue type, ie does it use microcassettes rather than flash memory? If so, then there may be a small 8-pin serial EEPROM that stores the code and speed dial numbers (?), in which case you could swap the chip between the two machines. You could also read the chips using a device programmer and compare the contents, or you could simply duplicate a working chip. - Franc Zabkar -- Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email. |
#11
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duplicating phone and ring voltage
On Sat, 01 Apr 2006 07:48:32 +1000, Franc Zabkar
wrote: On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 18:34:54 -0500, mm put finger to keyboard and composed: On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 04:10:17 -0500, "JANA" wrote: Phones need 48 Volts DC with an in series of 600 to 800 ohm source. The ring is 96 Volts at 25 Hz. Thanks a lot. For the answering machine, if it is a name brand, you should be able to get the information about how to reset the remote code. If it is a fixed uninique code, then you have a problem. It is a fixed code. A friend of mine and I each bought one 21 years ago, and the code was printed on the box, not on the bottom of the unit that became more common. I wish it had been on the bottom; we would still have it! This new one is from the wife of a friend, and she stopped using it a couple years ago and has forgotten the code. So you have another identical unit? Is it an analogue type, ie does it use microcassettes rather than flash memory? Microcassettes. If so, then there may be a small 8-pin serial EEPROM that stores the code and speed dial numbers (?) Not important, but it doesn't have a phone attached. That is one of the reasons my friend doesn't use it anymore. I will look for the EEPROM. in which case you could swap the chip between the two machines. You could also read the chips using a device programmer and compare the contents, or you could simply duplicate a working chip. *simply* duplicate? I don't think I can do that. ;-) But the rest of it sounds possible. Thanks a lot. - Franc Zabkar |
#12
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duplicating phone and ring voltage
"mm" wrote in message ... I need to connect some telephone-type things together in my own little circuit, and test them, but I don't know a simple method or what voltages to use. I think I need to use some wire, some kind of DC power, something to put a ring-signal on the line, a phone, and whatever I am testing. For example, I'm getting a replacement for my all-time favorite phone answering machine, but the owner has forgotten the 3-digit code for remote message retrieval. I'm willing to try all 900 or 1000, probably while I'm watching tv, but only if I can get it to go quickly. Are you sure you can't just program a new access code without knowing the old one? My machine does not ask for any codes at the base unit for anything. The new code just replaces the old. Only remote access requires the code. But yours may be different. Kevin |
#13
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duplicating phone and ring voltage
there are little circuit boxes that immitate the phone line, last I saw
one about 60 bucks |
#14
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duplicating phone and ring voltage
there are little circuit boxes that immitate the phone line, last I saw
one about 60 bucks Thats the way to go... Getting the operating voltage (48vdc) isn't that hard just hook up 4 12 volt batteries in series with an 800 ohm (If I remember correctly) reisistor on the end. Getting a 20hz ringtone is the difficult part since the wall current is 60hz.. I never figured out an easy way to make my phones ring. - Mike |
#15
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duplicating phone and ring voltage
"Michael Kennedy" wrote in message . .. there are little circuit boxes that immitate the phone line, last I saw one about 60 bucks Thats the way to go... Getting the operating voltage (48vdc) isn't that hard just hook up 4 12 volt batteries in series with an 800 ohm (If I remember correctly) reisistor on the end. Getting a 20hz ringtone is the difficult part since the wall current is 60hz.. I never figured out an easy way to make my phones ring. - Mike There's several easy ways to generate a 25Hz at 96v, one is an old fashioned multivibrator driving a 120V/12V transformer secondary, (ie a 25Hz inverter) and adjusting the multivibrator's supply down to get 96V. It's rough and ready but there's no reason why it shouldn't work, and it uses a few standard, off the shelf components. Dave |
#16
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duplicating phone and ring voltage
Wish someone had told me that when I was trying to build a ring circuit.
Oh well I guess I know now. :-) - Mike "Dave D" wrote in message ... "Michael Kennedy" wrote in message . .. there are little circuit boxes that immitate the phone line, last I saw one about 60 bucks Thats the way to go... Getting the operating voltage (48vdc) isn't that hard just hook up 4 12 volt batteries in series with an 800 ohm (If I remember correctly) reisistor on the end. Getting a 20hz ringtone is the difficult part since the wall current is 60hz.. I never figured out an easy way to make my phones ring. - Mike There's several easy ways to generate a 25Hz at 96v, one is an old fashioned multivibrator driving a 120V/12V transformer secondary, (ie a 25Hz inverter) and adjusting the multivibrator's supply down to get 96V. It's rough and ready but there's no reason why it shouldn't work, and it uses a few standard, off the shelf components. Dave |
#17
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duplicating phone and ring voltage
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 17:00:19 +0100, "Dave D"
wrote: "Michael Kennedy" wrote in message ... there are little circuit boxes that immitate the phone line, last I saw one about 60 bucks Sounds good, but so far the cheapest one was 114 plus S&H. Maybe I'll find the model you saw. Thats the way to go... Getting the operating voltage (48vdc) isn't that hard just hook up 4 12 volt batteries in series with an 800 ohm (If I I can handle this. remember correctly) reisistor on the end. Getting a 20hz ringtone is the difficult part since the wall current is 60hz.. I never figured out an easy way to make my phones ring. - Mike This sounds good, but I need to have it explained in simpler words. There's several easy ways to generate a 25Hz at 96v, one is an old fashioned multivibrator driving a 120V/12V transformer secondary, (ie a 25Hz Multivibrator? inverter) 25Hz inverter. All I can think of is the power supply from a tube radio in a 1950 car, that runs off a 6 (or 12) volt battery. and adjusting the multivibrator's supply down to get 96V. It's rough and ready but there's no reason why it shouldn't work, and it uses a few standard, off the shelf components. So I have to build it? I can do that but I don't know how. Dave Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let me know if you have posted also. |
#18
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duplicating phone and ring voltage
mm wrote:
I need to connect some telephone-type things together in my own little circuit, and test them, but I don't know a simple method or what voltages to use. I think I need to use some wire, some kind of DC power, something to put a ring-signal on the line, a phone, and whatever I am testing. For example, I'm getting a replacement for my all-time favorite phone answering machine, but the owner has forgotten the 3-digit code for remote message retrieval. I'm willing to try all 900 or 1000, probably while I'm watching tv, but only if I can get it to go quickly. So I need a test line to ring it directly, have the machine answer, and punch in the code. Also I have 2 fax machines, one that sends and one that receives! I'm pretty sure I can get it down to one that does both. I don't have two phone lines, and even if I did, I think things would run quicker with my own little circuit. In the 7th grade, we had two candlestick phones and a dry cell to play with during ham radio club, and everything worked (except it didn't ring, but that was ok because they had no bells. ) Any help appreciated. Hmmm, In this digital age, playing with analog? |
#19
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duplicating phone and ring voltage
In the 7th grade, we had two candlestick phones and a dry cell to play with during ham radio club, and everything worked (except it didn't ring, but that was ok because they had no bells. ) Any help appreciated. Hmmm, In this digital age, playing with analog? Yup... It's called POTS Plain Old Telephone Service. One thing to consider... Many fax machines and other devices have dial tone detection circuits. The mere presence of DC voltage on the line will not make them dial. Also, getting the correct 20 Hz ring frequency and voltage (with the right current) in a home grown circuit is a pain unless you are willing to get fairly elaborate. Here is a fancy Ringdown Circuit from Viking Electronics. List price is $106 http://www.vikingelectronics.com/products/pdf/dle-200b(sm).pdf Beachcomber |
#21
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duplicating phone and ring voltage
Try the Viking Electronics model DLE200 telephone line simulator box.
It's only about 5" by 2 " with phone jacks on it. It only cost around $100 about 12 years ago. |
#22
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duplicating phone and ring voltage
I used to have a hand cranked generator from an old phone. This puts out
exactly what you need. Think they are still available through gov surplus as field telephones. "Ken Layton" wrote in message ups.com... Try the Viking Electronics model DLE200 telephone line simulator box. It's only about 5" by 2 " with phone jacks on it. It only cost around $100 about 12 years ago. |
#23
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duplicating phone and ring voltage
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 23:59:09 -0500, "
wrote: I used to have a hand cranked generator from an old phone. This puts out exactly what you need. Think they are still available through gov surplus as field telephones. We had these in that 7th grade class I mentioned, but I don't think they lend them out (and may not have them 46 years later and I live in another city) But I'll look in surplus sources. OTOH, this will slow down some my prospective 15 seconds per code, that I need to finish in about 2 hours. Thanks. "Ken Layton" wrote in message oups.com... Try the Viking Electronics model DLE200 telephone line simulator box. It's only about 5" by 2 " with phone jacks on it. It only cost around $100 about 12 years ago. Thanks a lot to you and beachcomber. It is just what I need, and the price now ranges from 145 to 114, for the very same thing, online, plus shipping. It's small to -- oh, yeah, you said that -- and although that is a lot of money to fix these two things, it may have uses in the future. OTOH, I have the specs now to do this myself, so we'll see. |
#24
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duplicating phone and ring voltage
In article ,
mm wrote: OTOH, this will slow down some my prospective 15 seconds per code, that I need to finish in about 2 hours. Thanks. Good grief. 15 seconds will only let you try 480 combos in two hours. But, you should be able to do it manually in even less than 15 seconds. In the time you've spent jabbering about it, you'd already have the damn thing done if you'd sat down and done it. Hell, you could dial the number once and punch in five codes in succession. Borrow a damn phone from someone. If you're looking for pure intellectual diversion, go hook up with that flavored coffee guy and solve the cold fusion thing instead of trying to find a code for some five dollar answering machine that some idiot stole and then fenced on ebay. I used to work for a guy that could go in the machine shop and make a piece of tooling from a sketch he scribbled on the back of an envelope while he was taking a ****. He'd have the thing finished and working faster than most engineers could draw it out from 12 different perspectives with their drafting tables and t-squares and little tin eraser guides. This isn't a great time to be patriotic, with traitors and war criminals running the show, but "gettin' 'er done" *is* what made this country great, not sittin' around pondering things to death. |
#25
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duplicating phone and ring voltage
On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 00:02:29 -0800, Smitty Two
wrote: In article , mm wrote: OTOH, this will slow down some my prospective 15 seconds per code, that I need to finish in about 2 hours. Thanks. Good grief. 15 seconds will only let you try 480 combos in two hours. I know, and since there are only 1000 possible codes, the odds are even that I will find it by the time I'm half way through. But, you should be able to do it manually in even less than 15 seconds. In the time you've spent jabbering about it, you'd already have the damn thing done if you'd sat down and done it. No I couldn't. I had to get the answers that people provided, and I still have to build or buy a line voltage/ring voltage device. What's eating you, Smitty? Hell, you could dial the number once and punch in five codes in succession. I don't know if it works that way. It's a lot more secure if you have to start off with a correct code. Borrow a damn phone from someone. If you're looking for pure intellectual diversion, go hook up with that flavored coffee guy and solve the cold fusion thing instead of trying to find a code for some five dollar answering machine that some idiot stole and then fenced on ebay. The previous one came from E-bay. This one comes from the wife of a good friend who had it since it was new. (The one I bought from ebay had exactly the same problem my old one has. It would answer the phone and play the message, but it wouldn't beep or start recording the message. I doubt if it was necessary to steal it since it was broken. At the same time, testing this feature requires more setup than testing recording and playing the incoming or outgoing messages, so I don't think the seller knew it was broken. He didn't claim that it worked. But by buying this one, it was a lot easier to ask my friend not to get rid of his wife's machine. Turns out she had stopped using it and he sent it to me.) I used to work for a guy that could go in the machine shop and make a piece of tooling from a sketch he scribbled on the back of an envelope while he was taking a ****. He'd have the thing finished and working faster than most engineers could draw it out from 12 different perspectives with their drafting tables and t-squares and little tin eraser guides. Isn't that precious. This isn't a great time to be patriotic, with traitors and war criminals running the show, but "gettin' 'er done" *is* what made this country great, not sittin' around pondering things to death. Yeah, that's it. With the time I save not finding this code (while watching tv), I'll be able to stop terrorists. (Also while watching tv?) Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let me know if you have posted also. |
#26
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duplicating phone and ring voltage
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