A new low.

Harman Kardon HK-3370, original output transistors (never been previously
changed) were Chinese fakes. They didn't even bother to make the lettering,
logo, etc look the same or show the same hFe group. Busted them open, the
NPN's and PNP's even had different internals, die size was different, one
had RTV over the die, the other not. The numbers were 2SC3856 and 2SA1492.
I've dealt with many original Sanken devices - these weren't.

Good job as usual, Harman. Of course if Harman were a legitimate
manufacturer, instead of outsourcing everything for more than the past 25
years, things like this might not happen, eh?


Mark Z.

Not that I have any love for Harman, but to be fair, what manufacturers make
their own outputs? Most manufacturers, even the best, outsource most parts
and much assembly. I don't consider this to make them an illegitimate
manufacturer. The fact that they build mediocre equipment and have weak
support makes it a less than desirable product, IMO.

I replaced some outputs in a Denon a while back that looked flaky as well.
Tested the gain on the other pair and found it to be much lower than the
spec for the part and the replacements. I don't have the experience with
identifying them that you do so I am not sure, but my gut said to change the
other pair, too. I did not because I could not identify any problem, even
at full power. The unit came back with the other channel blown a couple of
months later. I don't think the problem is exclusive to Harman.

No excuse for them to buy from crap distributors rather than direct from
Sanken or authorized didstributors. The same goes for the distributors that
supply us replacement parts.

Thanks for the heads up, Mark.

Leonard

"Mark D. Zacharias" wrote in message
m...
A new low.

Harman Kardon HK-3370, original output transistors (never been previously
changed) were Chinese fakes. They didn't even bother to make the
lettering, logo, etc look the same or show the same hFe group. Busted them
open, the NPN's and PNP's even had different internals, die size was
different, one had RTV over the die, the other not. The numbers were
2SC3856 and 2SA1492. I've dealt with many original Sanken devices - these
weren't.

Good job as usual, Harman. Of course if Harman were a legitimate
manufacturer, instead of outsourcing everything for more than the past 25
years, things like this might not happen, eh?


Mark Z.

"Leonard Caillouet" wrote in message
...
Not that I have any love for Harman, but to be fair, what manufacturers
make their own outputs? Most manufacturers, even the best, outsource most
parts and much assembly. I don't consider this to make them an
illegitimate manufacturer. The fact that they build mediocre equipment
and have weak support makes it a less than desirable product, IMO.

I replaced some outputs in a Denon a while back that looked flaky as well.
Tested the gain on the other pair and found it to be much lower than the
spec for the part and the replacements. I don't have the experience with
identifying them that you do so I am not sure, but my gut said to change
the other pair, too. I did not because I could not identify any problem,
even at full power. The unit came back with the other channel blown a
couple of months later. I don't think the problem is exclusive to Harman.

No excuse for them to buy from crap distributors rather than direct from
Sanken or authorized didstributors. The same goes for the distributors
that supply us replacement parts.

Thanks for the heads up, Mark.

Leonard

"Mark D. Zacharias" wrote in message
m...
A new low.

Harman Kardon HK-3370, original output transistors (never been previously
changed) were Chinese fakes. They didn't even bother to make the
lettering, logo, etc look the same or show the same hFe group. Busted
them open, the NPN's and PNP's even had different internals, die size was
different, one had RTV over the die, the other not. The numbers were
2SC3856 and 2SA1492. I've dealt with many original Sanken devices - these
weren't.

Good job as usual, Harman. Of course if Harman were a legitimate
manufacturer, instead of outsourcing everything for more than the past 25
years, things like this might not happen, eh?


Mark Z.




I wasn't saying that Harman made, or should make their own output
transistors, but that if they were a "real" manufacturer, they'd have better
control over the quality of the finished product, and they'd be dealing
direct with Sanken or whoever, and not buying finished products from
Hu-Nos-Hu - which by the way, HK did NOT engineer, merely specified and
signed off on. Harman hasn't made anything of their own in decades, and it
shows.

Mark Z.

"Mark D. Zacharias" wrote in message
...

"Leonard Caillouet" wrote in message
...
Not that I have any love for Harman, but to be fair, what manufacturers
make their own outputs? Most manufacturers, even the best, outsource
most parts and much assembly. I don't consider this to make them an
illegitimate manufacturer. The fact that they build mediocre equipment
and have weak support makes it a less than desirable product, IMO.

I replaced some outputs in a Denon a while back that looked flaky as
well. Tested the gain on the other pair and found it to be much lower
than the spec for the part and the replacements. I don't have the
experience with identifying them that you do so I am not sure, but my gut
said to change the other pair, too. I did not because I could not
identify any problem, even at full power. The unit came back with the
other channel blown a couple of months later. I don't think the problem
is exclusive to Harman.

No excuse for them to buy from crap distributors rather than direct from
Sanken or authorized didstributors. The same goes for the distributors
that supply us replacement parts.

Thanks for the heads up, Mark.

Leonard

"Mark D. Zacharias" wrote in message
m...
A new low.

Harman Kardon HK-3370, original output transistors (never been
previously changed) were Chinese fakes. They didn't even bother to make
the lettering, logo, etc look the same or show the same hFe group.
Busted them open, the NPN's and PNP's even had different internals, die
size was different, one had RTV over the die, the other not. The numbers
were 2SC3856 and 2SA1492. I've dealt with many original Sanken devices -
these weren't.

Good job as usual, Harman. Of course if Harman were a legitimate
manufacturer, instead of outsourcing everything for more than the past
25 years, things like this might not happen, eh?


Mark Z.




I wasn't saying that Harman made, or should make their own output
transistors, but that if they were a "real" manufacturer, they'd have
better control over the quality of the finished product, and they'd be
dealing direct with Sanken or whoever, and not buying finished products
from Hu-Nos-Hu - which by the way, HK did NOT engineer, merely specified
and signed off on. Harman hasn't made anything of their own in decades,
and it shows.

Mark Z.

We don't really disagree here, Mark. My point was simply that lots of
manufacturers work this way these days. HK is part of the pack in this
regard, not a standout for stupidity.

Leonard