Will sea level rise if the polar caps melt?

Get a container. A tall one will work, like a tumbler.
Fill it about 3/4 full with tap water.

Add ice until the container is full but not so much that the container
overflows or the ice protrudes above the top. Place a cover over the
container to minimize evaporation, a saucer will do. Place the
container on a table and mark the side of it where the water level
appears. Make sure to choose the flattest part of the meniscus away
from any ice contact with the wall.

Let the ice melt.

Once the ice is completely melted, check the new water level.

Tell me again why sea level will rise?

Well, the south polar caps and other glaciers are on land, you say?
What is the volume of the ice on land, precisely? What is the relative
proportion of that volume of ice to the total volume of liquid water
in the oceans? What is the precise total surface area of the oceans?
When that 'precise' volume of ice is spread over the surface area of
the oceans how thick will it be? If you cannot answer these questions
Al Gore, you cannot predict sea level rise.

Geoff wrote:
Will sea level rise if the polar caps melt?

Get a container. A tall one will work, like a tumbler.
Fill it about 3/4 full with tap water.

Add ice until the container is full but not so much that the container
overflows or the ice protrudes above the top. Place a cover over the
container to minimize evaporation, a saucer will do. Place the
container on a table and mark the side of it where the water level
appears. Make sure to choose the flattest part of the meniscus away
from any ice contact with the wall.

Let the ice melt.

Once the ice is completely melted, check the new water level.

Tell me again why sea level will rise?

Well, the south polar caps and other glaciers are on land, you say?
What is the volume of the ice on land, precisely? What is the relative
proportion of that volume of ice to the total volume of liquid water
in the oceans? What is the precise total surface area of the oceans?
When that 'precise' volume of ice is spread over the surface area of
the oceans how thick will it be? If you cannot answer these questions
Al Gore, you cannot predict sea level rise.

You certainly can. You mean, you cannot predict it precisely. Who's
doing that?

On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:24:08 -0800, Geoff
wrote:

Will sea level rise if the polar caps melt?

Get a container. A tall one will work, like a tumbler.
Fill it about 3/4 full with tap water.

Add ice until the container is full but not so much that the container
overflows or the ice protrudes above the top. Place a cover over the
container to minimize evaporation, a saucer will do. Place the
container on a table and mark the side of it where the water level
appears. Make sure to choose the flattest part of the meniscus away
from any ice contact with the wall.

Let the ice melt.

Once the ice is completely melted, check the new water level.

Tell me again why sea level will rise?

Well, the south polar caps and other glaciers are on land, you say?
What is the volume of the ice on land, precisely? What is the relative
proportion of that volume of ice to the total volume of liquid water
in the oceans? What is the precise total surface area of the oceans?
When that 'precise' volume of ice is spread over the surface area of
the oceans how thick will it be? If you cannot answer these questions
Al Gore, you cannot predict sea level rise.

You done gone and annoyed the leftist weenies again ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:08:29 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:24:08 -0800, Geoff wrote:

Will sea level rise if the polar caps melt?

Get a container. A tall one will work, like a tumbler. Fill it about 3/4
full with tap water.

Add ice until the container is full but not so much that the container
overflows or the ice protrudes above the top. Place a cover over the
container to minimize evaporation, a saucer will do. Place the container
on a table and mark the side of it where the water level appears. Make
sure to choose the flattest part of the meniscus away from any ice
contact with the wall.

Let the ice melt.

Once the ice is completely melted, check the new water level.

Tell me again why sea level will rise?

Well, the south polar caps and other glaciers are on land, you say? What
is the volume of the ice on land, precisely? What is the relative
proportion of that volume of ice to the total volume of liquid water in
the oceans? What is the precise total surface area of the oceans? When
that 'precise' volume of ice is spread over the surface area of the
oceans how thick will it be? If you cannot answer these questions Al
Gore, you cannot predict sea level rise.

You done gone and annoyed the leftist weenies again ;-)


Excellent science!

* Ignore the fact that much of the ice in question is _on land_.
* Invent an experiment that _totally_, if not _purposely_ misses the
point.
* Feel proud of yourself for being clever.

Pseudo science at it's best.

Jim, I'm surprised you fell for it -- maybe you should stick to
electronics.

--
www.wescottdesign.com

On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:28:45 -0600, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:08:29 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:24:08 -0800, Geoff wrote:

Will sea level rise if the polar caps melt?

Get a container. A tall one will work, like a tumbler. Fill it about 3/4
full with tap water.

Add ice until the container is full but not so much that the container
overflows or the ice protrudes above the top. Place a cover over the
container to minimize evaporation, a saucer will do. Place the container
on a table and mark the side of it where the water level appears. Make
sure to choose the flattest part of the meniscus away from any ice
contact with the wall.

Let the ice melt.

Once the ice is completely melted, check the new water level.

Tell me again why sea level will rise?

Well, the south polar caps and other glaciers are on land, you say? What
is the volume of the ice on land, precisely? What is the relative
proportion of that volume of ice to the total volume of liquid water in
the oceans? What is the precise total surface area of the oceans? When
that 'precise' volume of ice is spread over the surface area of the
oceans how thick will it be? If you cannot answer these questions Al
Gore, you cannot predict sea level rise.

You done gone and annoyed the leftist weenies again ;-)


Excellent science!

* Ignore the fact that much of the ice in question is _on land_.
* Invent an experiment that _totally_, if not _purposely_ misses the
point.
* Feel proud of yourself for being clever.

Pseudo science at it's best.

Jim, I'm surprised you fell for it -- maybe you should stick to
electronics.

I figured I'd snag me a weenie. Didn't figure it'd be you, Tim, but
you'll do...

Please enumerate every glacier, and it's ice volume (as ice, no
Slowman "calculations" ;-)

I assume you'll agree that the Arctic is essentially neutral without
me having to pull out your finger nails ?:-)

Get an accurate volume for Antarctica, separating land-based (and that
land above and below sea level), and the "float-neutral".

Then let's talk :-)

If it rises only enough to get New York City and Boston, would anyone
give a wet fart ?:-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:13:11 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:28:45 -0600, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:08:29 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:24:08 -0800, Geoff
wrote:

Will sea level rise if the polar caps melt?

Get a container. A tall one will work, like a tumbler. Fill it about
3/4 full with tap water.

Add ice until the container is full but not so much that the container
overflows or the ice protrudes above the top. Place a cover over the
container to minimize evaporation, a saucer will do. Place the
container on a table and mark the side of it where the water level
appears. Make sure to choose the flattest part of the meniscus away
from any ice contact with the wall.

Let the ice melt.

Once the ice is completely melted, check the new water level.

Tell me again why sea level will rise?

Well, the south polar caps and other glaciers are on land, you say?
What is the volume of the ice on land, precisely? What is the relative
proportion of that volume of ice to the total volume of liquid water
in the oceans? What is the precise total surface area of the oceans?
When that 'precise' volume of ice is spread over the surface area of
the oceans how thick will it be? If you cannot answer these questions
Al Gore, you cannot predict sea level rise.

You done gone and annoyed the leftist weenies again ;-)


Excellent science!

* Ignore the fact that much of the ice in question is _on land_. *
Invent an experiment that _totally_, if not _purposely_ misses the
point.
* Feel proud of yourself for being clever.

Pseudo science at it's best.

Jim, I'm surprised you fell for it -- maybe you should stick to
electronics.

I figured I'd snag me a weenie. Didn't figure it'd be you, Tim, but
you'll do...

Please enumerate every glacier, and it's ice volume (as ice, no Slowman
"calculations" ;-)

Prove to me that you're not a liar or a credulous boob, first ;-), ;-)
and again ;-).

What is it about conservatives that you advance the most ridiculous
arguments then start loudly insisting that they be disproven by the most
circuitous methods possible?

No. You introduced the thread to this group, _you_ prove it or you back
down. Or consider your status as (at best) a credulous dupe to be proven.

Start with Greenland and the Antarctic, and probably half of Canada and
Siberia.

I assume you'll agree that the Arctic is essentially neutral without me
having to pull out your finger nails ?:-)

Sure.

But _I_ assume you'll agree that you have a vested financial interest in
living high on the hog until you die of old age, long before any long-
term problems with current energy policies show up?

Just so we can gauge any of your responses?

Get an accurate volume for Antarctica, separating land-based (and that
land above and below sea level), and the "float-neutral".

As I pointed out, that's your job.

Then let's talk :-)

If it rises only enough to get New York City and Boston, would anyone
give a wet fart ?:-)

Ah. So if a mountain lion only eats your neighbors you don't give a fat
rat's ass?

That's good to know, Jim.

--
www.wescottdesign.com

On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:44:35 -0600, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:13:11 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:28:45 -0600, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:08:29 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:24:08 -0800, Geoff
wrote:

Will sea level rise if the polar caps melt?

Get a container. A tall one will work, like a tumbler. Fill it about
3/4 full with tap water.

Add ice until the container is full but not so much that the container
overflows or the ice protrudes above the top. Place a cover over the
container to minimize evaporation, a saucer will do. Place the
container on a table and mark the side of it where the water level
appears. Make sure to choose the flattest part of the meniscus away
from any ice contact with the wall.

Let the ice melt.

Once the ice is completely melted, check the new water level.

Tell me again why sea level will rise?

Well, the south polar caps and other glaciers are on land, you say?
What is the volume of the ice on land, precisely? What is the relative
proportion of that volume of ice to the total volume of liquid water
in the oceans? What is the precise total surface area of the oceans?
When that 'precise' volume of ice is spread over the surface area of
the oceans how thick will it be? If you cannot answer these questions
Al Gore, you cannot predict sea level rise.

You done gone and annoyed the leftist weenies again ;-)


Excellent science!

* Ignore the fact that much of the ice in question is _on land_. *
Invent an experiment that _totally_, if not _purposely_ misses the
point.
* Feel proud of yourself for being clever.

Pseudo science at it's best.

Jim, I'm surprised you fell for it -- maybe you should stick to
electronics.

I figured I'd snag me a weenie. Didn't figure it'd be you, Tim, but
you'll do...

Please enumerate every glacier, and it's ice volume (as ice, no Slowman
"calculations" ;-)

Prove to me that you're not a liar or a credulous boob, first ;-), ;-)
and again ;-).

What is it about conservatives that you advance the most ridiculous
arguments then start loudly insisting that they be disproven by the most
circuitous methods possible?

No. You introduced the thread to this group, _you_ prove it or you back
down. Or consider your status as (at best) a credulous dupe to be proven.

Start with Greenland and the Antarctic, and probably half of Canada and
Siberia.

I assume you'll agree that the Arctic is essentially neutral without me
having to pull out your finger nails ?:-)

Sure.

But _I_ assume you'll agree that you have a vested financial interest in
living high on the hog until you die of old age, long before any long-
term problems with current energy policies show up?

Just so we can gauge any of your responses?

Get an accurate volume for Antarctica, separating land-based (and that
land above and below sea level), and the "float-neutral".

As I pointed out, that's your job.

Then let's talk :-)

If it rises only enough to get New York City and Boston, would anyone
give a wet fart ?:-)

Ah. So if a mountain lion only eats your neighbors you don't give a fat
rat's ass?

That's good to know, Jim.

As anticipated... no fact in the response ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

Tim Wescott wrote:

Ah. So if a mountain lion only eats your neighbors you don't give a fat
rat's ass?


That depends on the neighbor. No reason the lion should suffer.


--
The movie 'Deliverance' isn't a documentary!

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:28:45 -0600, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:08:29 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:24:08 -0800, Geoff
wrote:

Will sea level rise if the polar caps melt?

Get a container. A tall one will work, like a tumbler. Fill it
about 3/4 full with tap water.

Add ice until the container is full but not so much that the
container overflows or the ice protrudes above the top. Place a
cover over the container to minimize evaporation, a saucer will
do. Place the container on a table and mark the side of it where
the water level appears. Make sure to choose the flattest part of
the meniscus away from any ice contact with the wall.

Let the ice melt.

Once the ice is completely melted, check the new water level.

Tell me again why sea level will rise?

Well, the south polar caps and other glaciers are on land, you
say? What is the volume of the ice on land, precisely? What is the
relative proportion of that volume of ice to the total volume of
liquid water in the oceans? What is the precise total surface area
of the oceans? When that 'precise' volume of ice is spread over
the surface area of the oceans how thick will it be? If you cannot
answer these questions Al Gore, you cannot predict sea level rise.

You done gone and annoyed the leftist weenies again ;-)


Excellent science!

* Ignore the fact that much of the ice in question is _on land_.
* Invent an experiment that _totally_, if not _purposely_ misses the
point.
* Feel proud of yourself for being clever.

Pseudo science at it's best.

Jim, I'm surprised you fell for it -- maybe you should stick to
electronics.

I figured I'd snag me a weenie. Didn't figure it'd be you, Tim, but
you'll do...

Please enumerate every glacier, and it's ice volume (as ice, no
Slowman "calculations" ;-)

It's OK, we'll stick with the 100% proven trends. You see, we have the
photos, bone-stupid demands for unneeded data by well known liars
notwithstanding. lol

http://www.livescience.com/environme...cier_melt.html

http://www.nichols.edu/DEPARTMENTS/G...er_retreat.htm


I assume you'll agree that the Arctic is essentially neutral without
me having to pull out your finger nails ?:-)

Why, since it's not? lol

In article ,
Jim Thompson writes:

I assume you'll agree that the Arctic is essentially neutral without
me having to pull out your finger nails ?:-)

Is Greenland part of the Artic?

Anybody got the number handy? How much would sea level rise
if Greenland melted?

--
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam.

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:07:36 -0600,
(Hal Murray) wrote:

In article ,
Jim Thompson writes:

I assume you'll agree that the Arctic is essentially neutral without
me having to pull out your finger nails ?:-)

Is Greenland part of the Artic?

Anybody got the number handy? How much would sea level rise
if Greenland melted?

Greenland is a land mass with _some_ glacial coverage.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:07:36 -0600,
(Hal Murray) wrote:

In article ,
Jim Thompson writes:

I assume you'll agree that the Arctic is essentially neutral without
me having to pull out your finger nails ?:-)

Is Greenland part of the Artic?

Anybody got the number handy? How much would sea level rise
if Greenland melted?


Greenland is a land mass, so I do not think it will be melting any time
soon.

It is, however, covered with a large amount of ice.

The part of Greenland that is above the Arctic Circle is "part of the
Arctic".

There are no places on Earth that are "part of the artic", because no
such place exists on Earth.

Take the BLANK "Follow ups to:" line OUT of your retarded news reader
setup, jerk.

Tim Wescott wrote:
On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:08:29 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:24:08 -0800, Geoff wrote:

Will sea level rise if the polar caps melt?

Get a container. A tall one will work, like a tumbler. Fill it about 3/4
full with tap water.

Add ice until the container is full but not so much that the container
overflows or the ice protrudes above the top. Place a cover over the
container to minimize evaporation, a saucer will do. Place the container
on a table and mark the side of it where the water level appears. Make
sure to choose the flattest part of the meniscus away from any ice
contact with the wall.

Let the ice melt.

Once the ice is completely melted, check the new water level.

Tell me again why sea level will rise?

Well, the south polar caps and other glaciers are on land, you say? What
is the volume of the ice on land, precisely? What is the relative
proportion of that volume of ice to the total volume of liquid water in
the oceans? What is the precise total surface area of the oceans? When
that 'precise' volume of ice is spread over the surface area of the
oceans how thick will it be? If you cannot answer these questions Al
Gore, you cannot predict sea level rise.
You done gone and annoyed the leftist weenies again ;-)


Excellent science!

* Ignore the fact that much of the ice in question is _on land_.
* Invent an experiment that _totally_, if not _purposely_ misses the
point.

And fails to allow for the fact that the Oceans are sal****er. The
expansion on melting because of the pure water vs sal****er density
difference is only small but it is not zero.

* Feel proud of yourself for being clever.

Pseudo science at it's best.

Brain dead "Dittohead Science" from the Rush Limbaugh school of physics.
They are all pathological liars.

Jim, I'm surprised you fell for it -- maybe you should stick to
electronics.

He is a red necked ****wit of the worst possible sort.
Not stupid but wilfully ignorant of the science and proud of it.

Regards,
Martin Brown

On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:28:45 -0600, Tim Wescott
wrote:

* Ignore the fact that much of the ice in question is _on land_.

I did not ignore the fact. I accounted for it quite clearly. Come up
with precise volumes of ice and precise surface areas of the seas and
do the math. Show how X m^3 of ice are spread across Y m^2 of ocean
and tell us how many meters of rise to expect. Estimates range from 60
centimeters to 60 meters, that's a hell of a lot of margin of error.

On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:52:33 -0800, Geoff
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:28:45 -0600, Tim Wescott
wrote:

* Ignore the fact that much of the ice in question is _on land_.

I did not ignore the fact. I accounted for it quite clearly. Come up
with precise volumes of ice and precise surface areas of the seas and
do the math. Show how X m^3 of ice are spread across Y m^2 of ocean
and tell us how many meters of rise to expect. Estimates range from 60
centimeters to 60 meters, that's a hell of a lot of margin of error.

I think Tim's either (1) been drinking, or (2) he's been cut off and
he's cranky ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

Geoff wrote:
On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:28:45 -0600, Tim Wescott
wrote:

* Ignore the fact that much of the ice in question is _on land_.

I did not ignore the fact. I accounted for it quite clearly. Come up
with precise volumes of ice and precise surface areas of the seas and
do the math. Show how X m^3 of ice are spread across Y m^2 of ocean
and tell us how many meters of rise to expect. Estimates range from 60
centimeters to 60 meters, that's a hell of a lot of margin of error.

This is basic high school algebra - do your own homework.

The numbers are clear enough from a combination of remote sensing and
direct bore hole surveys. Roughly 2km thick ice over most of Antarctica
except for a few dry bits where there is arid dry desert. A similar
chunk of deep ice but not as big sits on Greenlands interior.

If all the ice on the planet were to melt then you get a 60-70m sea
rise. This is an incredibly unlikely scenario. Although working it out
has been a school geography excercise for a very long time.

The most likely sea level rise over the next century is predicted to be
somewhere in the range of 0.4m (IPCC) to 1m+-0.3m based on more recent
observational data about how the ice sheets are behaving. eg.

http://planetearth.nerc.ac.uk/news/story.aspx?id=293

Most of it coming from expansion. The additional contribution from ice
melting is thought to account for roughly 30% of the observed rise.

Regards,
Martin Brown

Geoff wrote:
On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:28:45 -0600, Tim Wescott
wrote:

* Ignore the fact that much of the ice in question is _on land_.

I did not ignore the fact. I accounted for it quite clearly. Come up
with precise volumes of ice and precise surface areas of the seas and
do the math. Show how X m^3 of ice are spread across Y m^2 of ocean
and tell us how many meters of rise to expect. Estimates range from 60
centimeters to 60 meters, that's a hell of a lot of margin of error.

No, they don't. lol

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:24:08 -0800, Geoff
wrote:

Will sea level rise if the polar caps melt?

Get a container. A tall one will work, like a tumbler.
Fill it about 3/4 full with tap water.

Add ice until the container is full but not so much that the container
overflows or the ice protrudes above the top. Place a cover over the
container to minimize evaporation, a saucer will do. Place the
container on a table and mark the side of it where the water level
appears. Make sure to choose the flattest part of the meniscus away
from any ice contact with the wall.
Let the ice melt.

Once the ice is completely melted, check the new water level.

Tell me again why sea level will rise?

Because "dittohead science" is a pack of lies.

Your experiment is fundamentally flawed.

The sea is 3.5% salt dissloved in water. The displacement of ice is less
than the volume it will occupy as liquid water.

It will rise slightly. Floating sea ice is *pure* water frozen and
displaces its own *WEIGHT* of the denser cold brine. When the ice melts
and mixes with a typically 3.5% total dissovled solids sea water at 0C.
The increase in the total volume of the water ice when melted and mixed
with salty *sea* water in the oceans is about 3%.

Part of the rise in sea level comes from expansion of the water that is
already in the oceans as it warms up.

Well, the south polar caps and other glaciers are on land, you say?
What is the volume of the ice on land, precisely? What is the relative
proportion of that volume of ice to the total volume of liquid water
in the oceans? What is the precise total surface area of the oceans?
When that 'precise' volume of ice is spread over the surface area of
the oceans how thick will it be? If you cannot answer these questions
Al Gore, you cannot predict sea level rise.

These numbers are standard high school calculations. It was fun to see
how little of the UK would be above sealevel if the entire polar cap ice
was melted. Never occurred to me or anyone else at the time that the
practical implications of this calculation might one day be important.

You don't need to be all that accurate to get an answer good to the
nearest 10m which is plenty good enough for planning purposes. The
number is somewhere between 60-70m depending on whether you include the
Greenland ice sheet and minor glaciers around the world.

You done gone and annoyed the leftist weenies again ;-)

Amazing just quite how wilfully ignorant you are.

Regards,
Martin Brown

On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 18:43:08 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:24:08 -0800, Geoff
wrote:

Will sea level rise if the polar caps melt?

Get a container. A tall one will work, like a tumbler. Fill it about
3/4 full with tap water.

Add ice until the container is full but not so much that the container
overflows or the ice protrudes above the top. Place a cover over the
container to minimize evaporation, a saucer will do. Place the
container on a table and mark the side of it where the water level
appears. Make sure to choose the flattest part of the meniscus away
from any ice contact with the wall.
Let the ice melt.

Once the ice is completely melted, check the new water level.

Tell me again why sea level will rise?

Because "dittohead science" is a pack of lies.

Your experiment is fundamentally flawed.

The sea is 3.5% salt dissloved in water. The displacement of ice is less
than the volume it will occupy as liquid water.

It will rise slightly. Floating sea ice is *pure* water frozen and
displaces its own *WEIGHT* of the denser cold brine. When the ice melts
and mixes with a typically 3.5% total dissovled solids sea water at 0C.
The increase in the total volume of the water ice when melted and mixed
with salty *sea* water in the oceans is about 3%.

Part of the rise in sea level comes from expansion of the water that is
already in the oceans as it warms up.

Well, the south polar caps and other glaciers are on land, you say?
What is the volume of the ice on land, precisely? What is the relative
proportion of that volume of ice to the total volume of liquid water
in the oceans? What is the precise total surface area of the oceans?
When that 'precise' volume of ice is spread over the surface area of
the oceans how thick will it be? If you cannot answer these questions
Al Gore, you cannot predict sea level rise.

These numbers are standard high school calculations. It was fun to see
how little of the UK would be above sealevel if the entire polar cap ice
was melted. Never occurred to me or anyone else at the time that the
practical implications of this calculation might one day be important.

You don't need to be all that accurate to get an answer good to the
nearest 10m which is plenty good enough for planning purposes. The
number is somewhere between 60-70m depending on whether you include the
Greenland ice sheet and minor glaciers around the world.

You done gone and annoyed the leftist weenies again ;-)

Amazing just quite how wilfully ignorant you are.

Regards,
Martin Brown

Not that there isn't a lot of willful ignorance on the left.

Biofuel, indeed.

--
www.wescottdesign.com

On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 18:43:08 +0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

Part of the rise in sea level comes from expansion of the water that is
already in the oceans as it warms up.

Interesting point. You mean the surface water, of course, since only
the first 50 meters or so is very warm or sees enough light to get
warmed by the sun. The other 3000 meters of depth are closer to -2 or
-3 C except where thermal vents heat it to 600 C at the deep ocean
trenches.

On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:08:29 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

You done gone and annoyed the leftist weenies again ;-)


Oopsie!

"Geoff" wrote in message
...
Will sea level rise if the polar caps melt?

Get a container. A tall one will work, like a tumbler.
Fill it about 3/4 full with tap water.

Add ice until the container is full but not so much that the container
overflows or the ice protrudes above the top. Place a cover over the
container to minimize evaporation, a saucer will do. Place the
container on a table and mark the side of it where the water level
appears. Make sure to choose the flattest part of the meniscus away
from any ice contact with the wall.

Let the ice melt.

Once the ice is completely melted, check the new water level.

Tell me again why sea level will rise?

Well, the south polar caps and other glaciers are on land, you say?
What is the volume of the ice on land, precisely? What is the relative
proportion of that volume of ice to the total volume of liquid water
in the oceans? What is the precise total surface area of the oceans?
When that 'precise' volume of ice is spread over the surface area of
the oceans how thick will it be? If you cannot answer these questions
Al Gore, you cannot predict sea level rise.

The sea level isn't rising - the land is sinking into the space vacated by
all the coal & oil.

On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:55:17 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:


"Geoff" wrote in message
.. .
Will sea level rise if the polar caps melt?

Get a container. A tall one will work, like a tumbler.
Fill it about 3/4 full with tap water.

Add ice until the container is full but not so much that the container
overflows or the ice protrudes above the top. Place a cover over the
container to minimize evaporation, a saucer will do. Place the
container on a table and mark the side of it where the water level
appears. Make sure to choose the flattest part of the meniscus away
from any ice contact with the wall.

Let the ice melt.

Once the ice is completely melted, check the new water level.

Tell me again why sea level will rise?

Well, the south polar caps and other glaciers are on land, you say?
What is the volume of the ice on land, precisely? What is the relative
proportion of that volume of ice to the total volume of liquid water
in the oceans? What is the precise total surface area of the oceans?
When that 'precise' volume of ice is spread over the surface area of
the oceans how thick will it be? If you cannot answer these questions
Al Gore, you cannot predict sea level rise.

The sea level isn't rising - the land is sinking into the space vacated by
all the coal & oil.

There are places where the ground water level is being depleted by
seven FEET a year.

On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:55:17 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:


"Geoff" wrote in message
.. .
Will sea level rise if the polar caps melt?

Get a container. A tall one will work, like a tumbler.
Fill it about 3/4 full with tap water.

Add ice until the container is full but not so much that the container
overflows or the ice protrudes above the top. Place a cover over the
container to minimize evaporation, a saucer will do. Place the
container on a table and mark the side of it where the water level
appears. Make sure to choose the flattest part of the meniscus away
from any ice contact with the wall.

Let the ice melt.

Once the ice is completely melted, check the new water level.

Tell me again why sea level will rise?

Well, the south polar caps and other glaciers are on land, you say?
What is the volume of the ice on land, precisely? What is the relative
proportion of that volume of ice to the total volume of liquid water
in the oceans? What is the precise total surface area of the oceans?
When that 'precise' volume of ice is spread over the surface area of
the oceans how thick will it be? If you cannot answer these questions
Al Gore, you cannot predict sea level rise.

The sea level isn't rising - the land is sinking into the space vacated by
all the coal & oil.

There are places where the ground water level is being depleted by
seven FEET a year.

"Geoff" wrote in message
...
Will sea level rise if the polar caps melt?

Get a container. A tall one will work, like a tumbler.
Fill it about 3/4 full with tap water.

Add ice until the container is full but not so much that the container
overflows or the ice protrudes above the top. Place a cover over the
container to minimize evaporation, a saucer will do. Place the
container on a table and mark the side of it where the water level
appears. Make sure to choose the flattest part of the meniscus away
from any ice contact with the wall.

Let the ice melt.

Once the ice is completely melted, check the new water level.

Tell me again why sea level will rise?

Well, the south polar caps and other glaciers are on land, you say?
What is the volume of the ice on land, precisely? What is the relative
proportion of that volume of ice to the total volume of liquid water
in the oceans? What is the precise total surface area of the oceans?
When that 'precise' volume of ice is spread over the surface area of
the oceans how thick will it be? If you cannot answer these questions
Al Gore, you cannot predict sea level rise.

The sea level isn't rising - the land is sinking into the space vacated by
all the coal & oil.