"Tim Daneliuk" wrote in message
...
wrote:

Tim Daneliuk wrote:

Morris Dovey wrote:


That does not make 'ID' wrong, but it puts the present
controversy in perspective. Without the Christian Coalition
and its ilk, you would never have heard of ID.


Actually, I would have, because the people who taught me
mathematics and science, also (along the way - separate classes)
taught me philosophy, theology, and history. "id" (note lower
case to separate from current "ID" movement) has been held
in a variety of forms from the ancient Greeks, to Augustine,
to Aquinas, to Spinoza and Pascal, and through today's
thinking on the matter. Materialist Reductionism in its
current incarnation is actually only a couple of hundred years
old (or less) IIRC.


--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/

A Google search on Materialist Reductionism turns up about 54,000 hits; I
didn't try to read them all. It started with the ancient Greeks who started
the ball rolling. It has evolved and there have been recent efforts (last
couple of hundred years) to incorporate the latest and best science,
including Darwin's Theory of Evolution.
http://www.google.com/search?q=Materialist+Reductionism

I guess that, if you want, you can isolate just the things you don't like
and say that is what leaves the need for ID. I think the real debate here
is if ID was applied to the universe we see and study today, when did that
happen. If ID is only the initiator of the Big Bang, the hard line anti-ID
folks may not have a problem since everything we observe came after, and the
designer is moved out of the realm of science. On the other hand, if the
designer keeps being involved, the creationists may be happy, especially if
the world is only about 6000 years old. Everyone else can fit themselves in
wherever they want. ID just has to show where there are examples of things
that can only have come about through supernatural intervention. We are
still waiting.

The more practical question is if ID should be taught in the school
curriculum. I think it still has to establish a scientific case before it
can be taught as science.

Steve