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wrote:

Tim Daneliuk wrote:

Morris Dovey wrote:

Tim Daneliuk (in ) said:

| I would suggest that Science build on a materialist-mechanical
| foundation is 'blind in one eye' to *any* First Cause and ought to
| throw up its hands now.

I'd like to suggest an alternative course: that you address the
process of discovery that can lead to more complete sightedness.

"Throwing the baby out with the bath water" doesn't appear to be a
productive strategy.

I don't have an alternative strategy. The IDers think they do - they
might be right or wrong. But wouldn't you agree that suggesting
defects in an existing theory does not require the concomittant
proposal for an alternative for the suggestion to be valid?
That is, I can (legitimately) say "X is possibly incorrect"
without necessarily having a replacement for X.

You can legitimately say that. The 'Iders' do not. The
concomittant proposal for an alternative is paramount to
them. Before 'ID' it was 'creation science'. They are not
in this fight for the science.

This is an presumption on your part, and a subtle kind
of invalid guilt-by-association. Morris and the Creation
Science crowd predicated their arguments on their
need to justify a literal 6x24 creation period. That is,
they reflected a rather narrow - and if I may say so -
wooden literal reading of the Genesis account and tried
to find some science to support it. ID makes no
such claim, nor is there any requirment for a literal 6
day anything in ID. Many/most IDers seem fine with
long geological ages. Bear in mind that there is a
substantial difference between "Literal Creationism",
"Theism", "Deism", and "Intelligent Design", all of which
posit one form of an "Author" theory.

Check out their webpages and look into what other issues
they support. Their agenda will be clear.

That does not make 'ID' wrong, but it puts the present
controversy in perspective. Without the Christian Coalition
and its ilk, you would never have heard of ID.

Actually, I would have, because the people who taught me
mathematics and science, also (along the way - separate classes)
taught me philosophy, theology, and history. "id" (note lower
case to separate from current "ID" movement) has been held
in a variety of forms from the ancient Greeks, to Augustine,
to Aquinas, to Spinoza and Pascal, and through today's
thinking on the matter. Materialist Reductionism in its
current incarnation is actually only a couple of hundred years
old (or less) IIRC.

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Tim Daneliuk
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