Morris Dovey wrote:

Tim...

There's a lack of sufficiency to prove _anything_ at this point.
There're good arguments both ways. My life experience leads me to want
to believe in ID; but I still don't have enough information even begin
to construct a proof.

Yup.


At the same time, all of my life experience leads me to want to
believe that if something happens, it happens because something caused
it to happen. Yet, I find myself unable to prove that _nothing_
happens without prerequisite cause.

Big Yup.


These concepts may or may not conflict - I simply don't have any way
of knowing. It seems reasonable to me to conclude there is truth in
both; but it also seems reasonable to conclude that neither is
complete - and that even the sum/union is incomplete.

The intriguing thing about ID - if you get past the Rev. Billybob
In A Bad Suit level of it - is that it proposes to harmonize the
two views.


Further, our reason and proofs don't appear to _define_ reality - and
in fact, have failed frequently in the past to even accurately
_describe_ reality.

That's why I keep insisting on this thread that the best we've done
so far as humans is more-or-less entirely utilitarian - we've
selected methods of knowledge that *do* things for us. Intuitively,
ISTM that there is more to knowledge than just utility.


There are so many questions we haven't answered - and so many more
that we haven't even asked. As always, we're using what's within our
limited horizons to draw universal conclusions. Seems to me that our
reach is awfully short and our grasp exceedingly weak.

--
Morris



I agree with all that, but that's why I think it's vital the two
communities start talking to each other. It is pretty clear that Science
"works" really well at the moment, but the possibility that we might
understand even more with a different point of epistemic departure is
worth investigating... Which is why I am reading up on all this at the
moment.


--
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Tim Daneliuk
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/