On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 06:55:33 -0400, Shawn Hirn
wrote:

In article , "Chris"
wrote:

"Tim May" wrote in message
...
In article .com,
Too_Many_Tools wrote:

I agree with the general discussion but...

I have seen it mentioned several places that only 40% of the population
had flood insurance.

Now if you have 60% of the population that can't afford to rebuild
because of losses, what do you think the politicians will do?

Also remember that over one million people are homeless at this time.

That is a significant number of votes.


And that is precisely why we are a nation of laws, not of pimping for
votes.

Any politician who votes to give money freely to those who do not have
a legal claim to it should be assassinated.

--Tim May

Tim,

Well said!!!

If I remember correctly when we had a Constitution, the federal government
was set up to protect the US from foreign interests. Not to provide a roof
over our head and food to those who did not feel like providing ourselves.

Your memory is a bit incomplete. The major goal by ratifying the
Constitution was to keep government out of the private lives of
individuals. Protection from foreign governments was part of it.
If the founding fathers were opposed to welfare type assistance, I
presume they would have said so in the Constitution and put some limits
on government there, but they didn't as far as I can tell, nor has any
congress since than or president put forth an amendment to do that.


Speech before the House of Representatives
by David (Davy) Crockett

Not Yours to Give

One day in the House of Representatives, a bill was taken up
appropriating money for the benefit of a widow of a distinguished
naval officer. Several beautiful speeches had been made in its
support. The Speaker was just about to put the question when Mr.
Crockett arose:

"Mr. Speaker --- I have as much respect for the memory of the
deceased, and as much sympathy for the suffering of the living, if
suffering there be, as any man in this house, but we must not permit
our respect for the dead or our sympathy for a part of the living to
lead us into an act of injustice to the balance of the living. I will
not go into an argument to prove that Congress has no power to
appropriate this money as an act of charity. Every member upon this
floor knows it. We have the right, as individuals, to give away as
much of our own money as we please in charity; but as members of
Congress we have no right so to appropriate a dollar of the public
money. Some eloquent appeals have been made to us upon the ground that
it is a debt due the deceased. Mr. Speaker, the deceased lived long
after the close of the war; he was in office to the day of his death,
and I have never heard that the government was in arrears to him.

"Every man in this House knows it is not a debt. We cannot, without
the grossest corruption, appropriate this money as the payment of a
debt. We have not the semblance of authority to appropriate it as a
charity. Mr. Speaker, I have said we have the right to give as much
money of our own as we please. I am the poorest man on this floor. I
cannot vote for this bill, but I will give one week's pay to the
object, and, if every member of Congress will do the same, it will
amount to more than the bill asks.

"He took his seat. Nobody replied. The bill was put upon its passage,
and, instead of passing unanimously, as was generally supposed, and
as, no doubt, it would, but for that speech, it received but few
votes, and of course, was lost.

"Later, when asked by a friend why he had opposed the appropriation,
Crockett gave this explanation:

"Several years ago I was one evening standing on the steps of the
Capitol with some other members of Congress, when our attention was
attracted by a great light over in Georgetown. It was evidently a
large fire. We jumped into a hack and drove over as fast as we could.
In spite of all that could be done, many houses were burned and many
families made homeless, and, besides, some of them had lost all but
the clothes they had on. The weather was very cold, and when I saw so
many women and children suffering, I felt that something ought to be
one for them. The next morning a bill was introduced appropriating
$20,000 for their relief. We put aside all other business and rushed
it through as soon as it could be done.

"The next summer, when it began to be time to think about the
election, I concluded I would take a scout around among the boys of my
district. I had no opposition there, but, as the election was some
time off, I did not know what might turn up. When riding one day in a
part of my district in which I was more a stranger than any other, I
saw a man in a field plowing and coming toward the road. I gauged my
gait so that we should meet as he came to the fence. As he came up, I
spoke to the man. He replied politely, but, as I thought, rather
coldly.

"I began: 'Well, friend, I am one of those unfortunate beings called
candidates, and--'

" 'Yes, I know you; you are Colonel Crockett. I have seen you once
before, and voted for you the last time you were elected. I suppose
you are out electioneering now, but you had better not waste your time
or mine. I shall not vote for you again.'

"This was a sockdolager... I begged him to tell me what was the
matter.

" 'Well, Colonel, it is hardly worth-while to waste time or words upon
it. I do not see how it can be mended, but you gave a vote last winter
which shows that either you have not capacity to understand the
Constitution, or that you are wanting in the honesty and firmness to
be guided by it. In either case you are not the man to represent me.
But I beg your pardon for expressing it in that way. I did not intend
to avail myself of the privilege of the constituent to speak plainly
to a candidate for the purpose of insulting or wounding you. I
intended by it only to say that your understanding of the Constitution
is very different from mine; and I will say to you what, but for my
rudeness, I should not have said, that I believe you to be
honest....But an understanding of the Constitution different from mine
I cannot overlook, because the Constitution, to be worth anything,
must be held sacred, and rigidly observed in all its provisions. The
man who wields power and misinterprets it is the more dangerous the
more honest he is.'

"I admit the truth of all you say, but there must be some mistake
about it, for I do not remember that I gave any vote last winter upon
any Constitutional question.

" 'No, Colonel, there's no mistake. Though I live here in the
backwoods and seldom go from home, I take the papers from Washington
and read very carefully all the proceedings in Congress. My papers say
that last winter you voted for a bill to appropriate $20,000 to some
suffers by a fire in Georgetown. Is that true?'

"Well, my friend, I may as well own up. You have got me there. But
certainly nobody will complain that a great and rich country like ours
should give the insignificant sum of $20,000 to relieve its suffering
women and children, particularly with a full and overflowing Treasury,
and I am sure, if you had been there, you would have done just as I
did.'

" 'It is not the amount, Colonel, that I complain of; it is the
principle. In the first place, the government ought to have in the
Treasury no more than enough for its legitimate purposes. But that has
nothing to do with the question. The power of collecting and
disbursing money at pleasure is the most dangerous power that can be
intrusted to man, particularly under our system of collecting revenue
by tariff, which reaches every man in the country, no matter how poor
he may be, and the poorer he is the more he pays in proportion to his
means. What is worse, it presses upon him without his knowledge where
the weight centers, for there is not a man in the United States who
can ever guess how much he pays to the government. So you see, that
while you are contributing to relieve one, you are drawing it from
thousands who are even worse off than he. If you had the right to give
anything, the amount was simply a matter of discretion with you, and
you had as much right to give $20,000,000 as $20,000. If you have the
right to give to one, you have the right to give to all; and, as the
Constitution neither defines charity nor stipulates the amount, you
are at liberty to give to any thing and everything which you may
believe, or profess to believe, is a charity, and to any amount you
may think proper. You will very easily perceive what a wide door this
would open for fraud and corruption and favoritism, on the one hand,
and for robbing the people on the other. No, Colonel, Congress has no
right to give charity. Individual members may give as much of their
own money as they please, but they have no right to touch a dollar of
the public money for that purpose. If twice as many houses had been
burned in this county as in Georgetown, neither you nor any other
member of Congress would have thought of appropriating a dollar for
our relief. There are about two hundred and forty members of Congress.
If they had shown their sympathy for the suffers by contributing each
one week's pay, it would have made over $13,000. There are plenty of
men in and around Washington who could have given $20,000 without
depriving themselves of even a luxury of life. The congressmen chose
to keep their own money, which, if reports be true, some of them spend
not very creditable; and the people about Washington, no doubt,
applauded you for relieving them from the necessity of giving by
giving what was not yours to give. The people have delegated to
Congress, by the Constitu- tion, the power to do certain things. To do
these, it is authorized to collect and pay moneys, and for nothing
else. Everything beyond this is usurpation, and a violation of the
Constitution. So you see, Colonel, you have violated the Constitution
in what I consider a vital point. It is a precedent fraught with
danger to the country, for when Congress once begins to stretch it's
power beyond the limits of the Constitution, there is no limit to it,
and no security for the people. I have no doubt you acted honestly,
but that does not make it any better, except as far as you are
personally concerned, and you see that I cannot vote for you..'

"I tell you I felt streaked. I saw if I should have opposition, and
this man should go to talking, he would set others to talking, and in
that district I was a gone fawn-skin. I could not answer him, for the
fact is, I was so fully convinced that he was right, I did not want
to. But I must satisfy him, and I said to him: Well, my friend, you
hit the nail upon the head when you said I did not have sense enough
to understand the Constitution. I intended to be guided by it, and
thought I had studied it fully. I have heard many speeches in Congress
about the powers of Congress, but what you have said here at your plow
has got more hard, sound sense in it than all the fine speeches I ever
heard. If I had ever taken the view of it that you have, I would have
put my head into the fire before I would have given that vote; and if
I ever vote for another unconstitutional law I wish I may be shot.

"He laughingly replied: 'Yes Colonel, you have sworn to that once
before, but I will trust you again upon one condition. You say that
you are convinced that your vote was wrong. Your acknowledgment of it
will do more good than beating you for it. If, as you go around this
district, you will tell people about this vote, and that you are
satisfied that it was wrong, I will not only vote for you, but will do
what I can to keep down opposition, and perhaps, I may exert a little
influence in that way.'

"If I don't [said I] I wish I may be shot; and to convince you that I
am earnest in what I say I will come back this way in a week or ten
days, and if you will get up a gathering of the people, I will make a
speech to them. Get up a barbecue, and I will pay for it.

" 'No, Colonel, we are not rich people in this section, but we have
plenty of provisions to contribute to a barbecue, and some to spare
for those who have none. The push of crops will be over in a few days,
and we can then afford a day for a barbecue. This is Thursday; I will
see to getting up on Saturday week.. Come to my house on Friday, and
we will go together, and I promise you a very respectable crowd to see
and hear you.'

"Well, I will be here. but one thing more before I say good-bye. I
must know your name.

" 'My name is Bunce.'

"Not Horatio Bunce?

" 'Yes.'

"Well, Mr. Bunce, I never saw you before though you say you have seen
me, but I know you very well. I am glad I have met you, and very proud
that I may hope to have you for my friend.

"It was one of the luckiest hits of my life that I met him. He mingled
but little with the public, but was widely known for his remarkable
intelligence and incorruptible integrity, and for a heart brimful and
running over with kindness and benevolence, which showed themselves
not only in words but in acts. He was the oracle of the whole country
around him, and his fame had extended far beyond the circle of his
immediate acquaintance. Though I had never met him before, I had heard
much of him, and but for this meeting it is very likely I should have
had opposition, and had been beaten. One thing is very certain, no man
could now stand up in that district under such a vote.

"At the appointed time I was at his house, having told our
conversation to every crowd I had met, and to every man I stayed all
night with, and I found that it gave the people an interest and a
confidence in me stronger than I had ever seen manifested before.
Though I was considerably fatigued when I reached his house, and,
under ordinary circumstances, should have gone early to bed, I kept up
until midnight, talking about the principles and affairs of
government, and got more real, true knowledge of them than I had got
all my life before. I have known and seen much of him since, for I
respect him --- no, that is not the word --- I reverence and love him
more than any living man, and I go to see him two or three times a
year; and I will tell you sir, if everyone who professes to be a
Christian, lived and acted and enjoyed it as he does, the religion of
Christ would take the world by storm.

"But to return to my story. The next morning we went to the barbecue,
and, to my surprise, found about a thousand men there. I met a good
many whom I had not known before, and they and my friend introduced me
around until I had got pretty well acquainted --- at least, they all
knew me. In due time notice was given that I would speak to them. They
gathered up around a stand that had been erected. I opened my speech
by saying:

"Fellow-citizens --- I present myself before you today feeling like a
new man. My eyes have lately been opened to truths which ignorance or
prejudice, or both, had heretofore hidden from my view. I feel that I
can today offer you the ability to render you more valuable service
than I have ever been able to render before. I am here today more for
the purpose of acknowledging my error than to seek your votes. That I
should make this acknowledgment is due to myself as well as to you.
Whether you will vote for me is a matter for your consideration only.

"I went on to tell them about the fire and my vote for the
appropriation and then told them why I was satisfied it was wrong. I
closed by saying:

"And now, fellow-citizens, it remains only for me to tell you that the
most of the speech you have listened to with so much interest was
simply a repetition of the arguments by which your neighbor, Mr.
Bunce, convinced me of my error.

"It is the best speech I ever made in my life, but he is entitled to
the credit for it. And now I hope he is satisfied with his convert and
that he will get up here and tell you so.

"He came upon the stand and said: " 'Fellow-citizens --- It affords me
great pleasure to comply with the request of Colonel Crockett. I have
always considered him a thoroughly honest man, and I am satisfied that
he will faithfully perform all that he has promised you today.'

"He went down, and there went up from that crowd such a shout for Davy
Crockett as his name never called forth before.

"I am not much given to tears, but I was taken with a choking then and
felt some big drops rolling down my cheeks. And I tell you now that
the remembrance of those few words spoken by such a man, and the
honest, hearty shout they produced, is worth more to me than all the
reputation I have ever made, or shall ever make, as a member of
Congress.

"Now, sir," concluded Crockett, "you know why I made that speech
yesterday. There is one thing now to which I wish to call to your
attention. You remember that I proposed to give a week's pay. There
are in that House many very wealthy men --- men who think nothing of
spending a week's pay, or a dozen of them, for a dinner or a wine
party when they have something to accomplish by it. Some of those same
men made beautiful speeches upon the great debt of gratitude which the
country owed the deceased --- a debt which could not be paid by money
--- and the insignificance and worthlessness of money, particularly so
insignificance a sum as $10,000, when weighed against the honor of the
nation. Yet not one of them responded to my proposition. Money with
them is nothing but trash when it is come out of the people. But it is
the one great thing for which most of them are striving, and many of
them sacrifice honor, integrity, and justice to obtain it." David
Crockett was born August 17, 1786 at Limestone (Greene County),
Tennessee. He died March 06, 1836 as one of the brave Southerners
defending the Alamo.

Crockett had settled in Franklin County, Tennessee in 1811. He served
in the Creek War under Andrew Jackson. In 1821 and 1823 he was elected
to the Tennessee legislature. In 1826 and 1828 he was elected to
Congress. He was defeated in 1830 for his outspoken opposition to
President Jackson's Indian Bill - but was elected again in 1832.

In Washington, although his eccentricities of dress and manner excited
comment, he was always popular on account of his shrewd common sense
and homely wit; although generally favoring Jackson's policy, he was
entirely independent and refused to vote to please any party leader.

At the end of the congressional term, he joined the Texans in the war
against Mexico, and in 1836 was one of the roughly 180 men who died
defending the Alamo. Tradition has it that Crockett was one of only
six survivors after the Mexicans took the fort, and that he and the
others were taken out and executed by firing squad.
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner