thanks kevin...its been a few weeks since the tops arrived [canadian]
and since then i have had them clamped down pretty tight in a warm dry
area....i guess its time to take another look at them and will unclamp
sticker them as per below after i seal the ends....

i have read many discussins since i bought these regarding figured
maples notorious reputation for instability.....

thanks again
On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 12:35:19 -0400, "Kevin Hall"
wrote:

I don't know where you bought the wood, or where you had it shipped to,
but it is possible for wood to suck up moisture during a long trip,
especially if the end grain has not been properly sealed.

Maple, especially the figured stuff can be unpredictable at the best of
times. It will tend to cup or twist under a wide variety of circumstances.
If your pieces have just been sawn to length and not end-sealed, before you
do any machining seal up that end grain with parafin wax or even old paint.
Paraffin wax must be melted in a double boiler, never NEVER melted directly
in a pan over a stove so it doesn't reach it's flashpoint. The idea is to
stop the rapid loss or gain of moisture through the end grain and make the
boards relinquish the excess water over the entire surface rather than just
from the ends. If you don't do that with any decent wood blanks or billets
you are asking for end-checking which will spoil your day. The idea is to
ensure that any moisture loss/gain takes place evenly over all surfaces
rather than taking the easy way out.

One the end grain is sealed ( and that should have been done immediately the
blanks were sawn to length) you need to 'sticker' the individual slices.
Usually with acoustic tops or backs we do it in pairs as the slices are so
thin, but with thicker material I'd sticker each piece. The 'stickers' are
usually bits of scrap 1/4" ply or hardboard roughly the same length as the
boards are wide and ripped approx. 1/4" to 3/8" wide. Place 3 stickers on
your storage self or bench with one about 1" in from the location of each
end of a maple slice and one in the approx. middle. Put a slice on top then
repeat the sticker pattern on top of that slice. Add another maple slice.
Continue 'til you have the material stacked. Now the air in your shop,
hopefully conditioned to somewhere around 38% relative humidity, can
circulate around all 4 surfaces of every slice. If the maple slices are
badly cupped or warped you may want to place a flat piece of plywood etc. on
top of the last layer of stickers, and weight the whole lot down with
fairly substantial weights on top of the ply.

If you intend to do much woodwork you should invest in a small moisture
meter so you don't have to guess at the moisture content of your materials.
At one time these were well beyond the reach of most hobby builders, but
these days you can buy a number of varieties of small pin-type meters for
$100 Cdn. or so. That's not much money when you consider how much you can
lose if you blow up a couple of high-grade tops through neglect of moisture
content. I build with materials air dried down to 8% equilibrium moisture
content. Some luthiers specify 6%, but that is virtually impossible to
achieve by air drying, at least in our eastern Canadian environment. I'd
much rather have 8% air dried stuff I can count on than wood which has been
improperly kiln dried to 6.

A few weeks in a decent environment, stickered as above, should stabilize
thin slices for you to the point where it will be safe to start the
machining. Be very careful about feeding figured maple ( or any figured
wood) through most commercial planers, and even over jointers. The knives
must be very sharp and cuts must be very light or you'll get tearout. Most
figure, especially 'curl' or fiddleback, is merely the end grain coming to
the surface of the board where you wouldn't normally expect it. That means
that if your planer knives are less than razor sharp or if your feed is at
all heavy you'll tend to bugger the work as the knives grab hold of the end
grain and tear out ruddy great chunks. I've seen $100 per board foot curly
koa come out of a planer in matchstick form.

Thickness sanders are a better bet once you have one flat surface.

People buy hardwood which is advertised as being 'kiln dried' and assume it
will be stable as a result. The trouble is kiln drying is a very complex
process and very few kiln operators treat quality hardwoods in the tedious
manner they require for best results. Most large commercial kilns are used
basically to bully the max. amount of moisture out in the shortest possible
time in order to reduce the shipping cost of huge shipments. Sad but true.
Reduce the shipping weight of an 80,000 lb. order by 15% and you have saved
a load of cash. In order to dry quality hardwoods properly the process
needs to be much slower ( which means expensive) and after it has reached
the pre-determined moisture level it needs to be stress relieved. That is a
bit of an involved process and few kiln operators these days either know how
to do it, understand the process, or are willing to take the time to do
it.

You can tell in short order if a stick has been properly stress relieved
after kilning by means of a simple test. Take a scrap of the wood about 3"
long and maybe an inch wide and with the bandsaw make several straight cuts
into the end grain, but not all the way through the full length of the
piece. You are making what appears to be the tines of a fork, in effect.
If the wood has been properly stress relieved the 'tines' will remain
straight. If it hasn't then the outer tines will tend to warp in onto the
others and close up the gaps between them. It happens almost instantly. If
that is the case, on long boards which are perfectly dressed and straight,
when you rip the board the two pieces may splay out from each other as they
come off the saw or may bind together, trapping the back of the blade and
causing kickbacks.

The difficulty in finding kiln operators who understand the process and who
are willing to do it is the main reason many luthiers much prefer to air-dry
their own timber.

Once you have the wood stabilized and whupped into shape as a guitar, you
need to enhance the figure as much as you can. Remember the figure is
usually just end grain coming to the surface on the flat, so you can use
that to your advantage. End grain sucks up stain faster than the rest of
the board, so before you actually start your proper staining and finishing
give the maple a coat of some fairly dark spirit stain, let it dry then
sand it off. The majority of the surface will come white again fairly
swiftly, but the curl will retain enough of the colour to accentuate only
the figured portions. Now when you apply what ever colour and finish to the
overall piece the figure will stand out with much greater prominence.
Practice on scraps beforehand, obviously, so you get the lick down before
committing yourself to the finished piece.

Good luck.
K.Hall,
Timberline Guitars,
Canada
zz wrote in message
news:43016ffb.2538490@news-server...
i'll follow on and top post:
that sounds like a good suggestion below....
my workshop has a nice dry warm area ......
i am not in a hurry and havent even cut the templates for the bodies
yet so i have some time before i need to glue tops on.....
i have lightly cramped them cup down with a flat board and will rotate
them every couple of days.....i feel as though i can't tighten the
clamp too much today.....i am paranoid the top board will crack....
i dont think these boards were 10% mc as they were advertised..
they had a kind of sour smell when i opened the package...the smell is
disapating now after 24 hours in a dry warm workshop

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 18:13:27 -0500, "babygrand"
wrote:

If you're not in a big hurry, you might try nesting the pieces in an
alternating manner... in other words, place one board with the cup down,
and
then it's book matched mate on top of it with the cup up, then repeat for
the other two pairs. Apply a large, fFLAT board or metal plat to the top
of
the stach and lots of weight (100-200 lbs.) on top of that. It won't
push
them flat right away, but as they come to equilibrium moisture content in
your shop(say 3 to 4 weeks?), a lot of the warp or twist may come out.

If that doesn't do it, you migfht try to find someone with a very wide
jointer, say a 12" wide blade. Frequently most of the warp and twist can
be
shaved out with a properly set up jointer. Even if you can only get one
side good and flat, you can then run the pieces through a good planer
with
the flat side down, and level up the top surface. Good luck.

babygrand
-
"zz" wrote in message
news:4302158f.2411828@news-server...
On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 14:11:30 -0500, "babygrand"
wrote:

Even if the boards were absolutely flat, I would think maple would be
a
poor
choice for a guitar soundboard (I am assuming you are talking acoustic
guitar, since you plan to plane them to 1/4") Not that maple wouldn't
work,
it just won't produce the resonance of say a Sitka spruce, or other
high
quality fir board. Maple is so dense and rigid that it's natural
vibration
(amplitude) would be far less than a lighter spruce, and have much
less
"output" than a traditional soundboard. Maple would be, however, an
excellent choice for an electric solid body, especially curly or
fiddleback
maple.

babygrand
"zz" wrote in message
news:43008f26.72584@news-server...
just imported 3 pairs of bookmatched maple tops and i was
dissapointed
as to the quality of the boards....as this is the first time i have
purchased this type of product perhaps my expectations were a lttle
high....the figuring seems to be nice and look pretty much as
photographed prior to purchase....

the boards however are warped from end to end and from side to
side....the warp is an even curl in both directions...across the
board
it would be about 1/16 - 3/32 and about the same or a little more
from
end to end....also the boards are fine sawn not dressed....

i want to machine these to 1/4" and make guitar tops from these
boards..is this feasible??
or have I been sold substandard product??
am i expecting more than is normal for maple boards??

i have not published the name of the supplier and i guess if i have
been ripped off i would make sure that others are forewarned...
i would not know as i have no experience in buying this type of
timber
see pics he
obviously i am showing the worst board
http://www.aargent.com.au/music/maple.htm
zz

its for chamberd body electric guitar
one more question should i hand plane it or put it through a milling
machine [thcknesser]??
thanks by the way for your encouraging comments
zz


zz


zz