Arch wrote:

Draw you own conclusions, but perhaps one reason is that as
woodturners
increase in number and decrease in age, their view becomes less
limited,
and their attitudes are more proactive or at least, less reactive.

I think this is normal. While artists are somtimes discovered later in
their years and sometimes even after death, a great deal of the artists
we know have made their mark in their youth.

I think groundbreaking "art" has always been subjective, and the
mullings of those on this group simply mirror the feelings of those on
the periphery of the movement. It is easy to find examples of "art"
that were considered blasphemous at the time of their inception that
are now considered fine art by most. (Think Michaelangelo's "David",
or Rodan's "The Thinker").

Art is sometimes mistaken for "pretty" or "pleasing". If the viewer of
said work of art like it, then it fits the acceptable definition of
art. If the viewer does not, or cannot find any commendable aspect of
the artistic piece, then it certainly cannot be art in their opinion.

As we get older and our minds grow shut, we tend to hold onto things
and perceptions we understand. It is hard to think out of our own box.
We recently had Mike Hosuluk (sp?) come to our club for a demonstation
and it was more fun to watch the group than it was to watch him.

"What would make him do that?"
"Why would he do that?"
"That guy has TOO much time on his hands."
"Well, no one actually said that he sold that stuff..."

You get the picture. I do not care for his work, but I do like some of
his techniques. He is a talented turner and there was a lot to learn
there. But someone has to push the envelope way out there to
outrageous to get some inspired to try a small step towards making
something other than bowls on the lathe.

We are just now getting some newer turners in our group, and we are
fighting to keep them. I have an easily bored, restless mind, and I
turn all manner of things. I am not concerned with what others think,
although it IS nice to have approval from certain members of our club.

I think "art" in the case of our turnings is a misnomer. It has too
much impact verbally, and has certainly been overthought as a
provovative statement here. If one will notice, the people that are
unconditionally considered as artists here are the bowl, vase, and seed
pot guys that add certain unusual touches to the form to make it their
own. While their craftsmanship is unquestioned, they really never
imagined very far away from the norm of shapes and objects we find so
comfortable. That is why they are safe to call artists.

Now that we see turners making treenware on the lathe, making off
center tornadoes, bugs, and piercing, punching, coloring, painting, and
even tying pieces of some other material on their projects, it is
difficult for us to accept. (As a side bar, please note that few of
these people when met call themselves "artists".) Their work is a far
cry from 1) make a traditional shape of some sort 2) get the walls as
thin as possoble 3) sand to 12,000 grit and 4) apply multiple coats of
finish.

Personally, I get charge out of being challenged on the level of
understanding what the newer turners are trying to do with new
techniques. While it may not start a trend (which art often does by
inspiring imitation - think about that while you are turning a large
hollow form a la Mr. Ellsworth who almost single handedly introduced
the genre that is now considered "art") it is sometimes meant to do
just what it has done to our craft; to provoke the mind, challenge the
senses, cause controversy, and inspire us to be more creative.

And while I will not take the space here to quote all of Darrell
Feltmate's post, I think it was absolutely great.

Robert

PS: One more thing... nice to see some intelligent exchange on the old
group again.