"D Murphy" wrote in message
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"John R. Carroll" wrote in
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"D Murphy" wrote in message
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"John R. Carroll" wrote in
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"D Murphy" wrote in message
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jim rozen wrote in
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In article , Gunner
says...



My experience has been that people that are that confident in their plan
are doomed to have their asses handed to them. The guy sitting in podunk
will have plenty of time to plan his escape and revenge.

I think he is as likely to just give up and accept what will become his lot
in life. He had that look and fel about him. Three years without income is
not something you forget quickly and the guy has a family to provide for. A
great deal will also depend on what comes next. This guy might be one of the
lucky few in ten years.




I don't know how alike or different you and I are Dan but when we
discuss the well being and health of our country we are talking about
two entirely different things from very different perspectives.
You argue, intelligently as a rule, that all is well and while the
economy could be better it's doing pretty good. Dislocation is both
normal and inevitable. The current positive trends will continue and
over the long haul we'll do just fine. Politics is politics and don't
really make much of a difference as politicians are all alike
regardless of party affiliation. If that isn't about right please
correct me.

That's about right. Certainly the government and politicians can affect
the economy, particularly on a local level.

I just didn't want to politicize this exchange. I reserve that for Gunner
and a couple of others. It's not that you couldn't fight the good fight,
It's that I put more value on what you say and wouldn't waste your time.



This is a sliver of my thinking.
None of what you point out as important or revealing telltales matter
much in the long run. They are all symptoms if you will.
The economy of the United States is successful and has been
competitive because of the financial, legal, transportation, energy
and commercial underpinnings from which it flows. It is also not
successful due to some special and uniquely American quality commonly
known as the "can do spirit" of Americans. There is plenty of "can do
spirit" all over the world. What we have in this country is a system,
let me repeat that - it's important - WE HAVE A SYSTEM, that turns
"can do" into "been there done that". That's the huge difference.

I agree with that. In addition to the "underpinnings" you can't
underestimate the importance of the massive amount of capital and assets
that this country posesses.

You are quite right and we have gone a long way to maximize the value of
that capital and those assets with established rules.
Even with the unintended consequences, the system has worked admirably.
Foriegn nationals fearlessly put capital to work here for the same reason
that an illegal imigrant now owns a ranch in Arizona ( I think). They both
recieve equal treatment under the law.




Rinse and repeat for the tax code, infrastructure legislation/planning
apparatus and so on.

The huge problem here is a culture of special interests and an us against
them attitude. Top that off with a populace of deeply conservative people
who are adverse to wholesale change, and complex unfair legislation is
what you get.

At some point the general welfare of the public interest becomes it's own
super special interest.
As for being conservative, that isn't political. Human beings hate change
and resist it even against their own best interests.
A crisis is generally required to effect change. That and real leadership.
There are risks in that too.


If you don't believe that "liberal" Americans are at heart deeply
conservative, talk to them about reforming the tax code, Social Security,
etc..

See above. I agree completely.



We also need to resurrect the classless citizen model. In the eyes of
the law all citizens need equality, justice must be blind. The USA
Patriot act has created two classes of American citizens. We now have
the class with constitutionally protected rights as well as a class
whose rights can be pretty capriciously ignored at the convenience or


Unfortunately as much as people like to think that we have a long
tradition of respecting civil rights, that simply is not the case.

We do, with a very few notable exceptions, in the law. Those exceptions were
amended long ago.
Tradition or no, it's the only philosophy I want any part of.

Adams, Lincoln, FDR and many others have trampled on civil rights in far
worse ways than the Patriot Act does. We do have a tradition of restoring
those rights soon after the crisis at hand is over. I'm confident the
Patriot Act won't be permanent.

Unless I am mistaken Dan the Senate passed the conferenced version just
before the break.
Until it's repealed it is the law.

--
John R. Carroll
Machining Solution Software, Inc.
Los Angeles San Francisco
www.machiningsolution.com