On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 15:09:40 +0100, John Cartmell
wrote:

In article , Andy Hall
wrote:
On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 01:29:58 +0100, John Cartmell
wrote:

In article , Andy Hall
wrote:
There was a union, although I didn't join on principle - it wouldn't
have made any difference anyway because whoever it was was pretty
toothless anyway, and this was 1977-8 not 1979 and later.

This was at the time that the papers were telling you that the Unions had
a stranglehold everywhere and, on the strength of those lies, Thatcher got
in government.

Thatcher entered government because a majority of people voted for members
of her party. It is the British form of democracy.

The background was the incompetence of the previous government.

The background was the desertion of the government by the Liberal Party who
thought they could get more votes out of that desertion in the face of a
torrent of lies by the Tory Press. The government had managed to hold down
inflation after it had gone through the roof with the previous Tory
government but holding down inflation meant keeping your nerve. The Liberals'
nerve broke. After the election Thatcher kept down inflation by letting
unemployment rip to 4-6million after winning the election complaining that
the Labour government might have unemployment over 1 million. And inflation
wasn't held down by Thatcher as anyone with a mortgage at that time can
testify.

This of course is nonsense because economic cycles in those days
followed a predictable time pattern and it's silly to suggest that
things changed more quickly and after an election.

Unemployment figures, in the same way as inflation figures have been
manipulated by successive governments of both parties to the point
that neither figure has any real credibility. There have been a
whole raft of changes over what counts and what doesn't, bogus
training schemes to take people out of the figures, new deals and so
on.




And BTW you benefitted from any negotiations that Union might have
negotiated regarding pay and conditions - and did so on the backs of those
workers who did join the Union and pay their subs.

I didn't benefit from any negotiations because none were had.

You did. You benefited from government policy promoted by all the Trades
Unions.

I don't regard artificial pay restraint as a benefit at all.
Furthermore I don't want or need an organisation like a trade union to
negotiate things on my behalf. I am perfectly capable of doing so
myself, thanks.



Only a few left wing activists joined the union and there was little
interest from most of my colleagues. Most took responsibility for
themselves and found much better jobs. The pay freeze probably did spur
some who wouldn't have otherwise done so into looking over the parapet.

Indirectly, I suppose that they could thank the government of the time for
creating the screwed up and artificial environment that forced them to do
so.

The pay freeze was imposed to get out of the mess caused by the previous Tory
government.

Yeah, right....


--

..andy

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