On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 20:31:28 +0100, John Cartmell
wrote:

In article , Andy Hall
wrote:
I feel that in the early years of the 20th century they may have had a role
to play, in the 60s and 70s a fair proportion of the blame for the decline
in UK industry could be laid at their door and that it was reasonable that
their power should have been curtailed.

Very near all the blame should be placed at the door of grossly incompetent
management. All the blame should be placed at the door of Thatcherism - even
though some was from people pre-Thatchering Thatcher. Some Union official and
members took the idea of 'self-self-self' very seriously and did a great deal
of harm. Thatcher encouraged the idea and made it 'respectable'.

I think that you are confusing the difference between being selfish
and taking individual responsibility for one's self.

The first of these is not desirable if it is at the explicit expense
of others. However, I see nothing wrong at all with an individual
taking responsibility for themselves and the state or other
collectivist organisation having as little involvement in that as
possible. The two are quite different.

I certainly didn't agree with all of Margaret Thatcher's approaches on
things but do not consider that most of her policies were encouraging
people to be selfish in the sense of doing others down. Also, one
may not agree with her policies and views on things, but at least they
was seldom any confusion on where she stood on an issue. We have not
had that in a prime minister from either party since.

I can understand if some people prefer to have state involvement in
their lives or feel more comfortable with a collectivist organisation
such as a trade union "supporting" them in some way, but I do not
believe that it is reasonable to then suggest that any alternative to
that is being self centred. That simply demonstrates insecurity.



To my mind
the idea is criminal whether it's done by a worker in a car factory or a
Director paying himself millions. Today's criminals are mainly those in
directors' chairs.

Hmm.... I would say that most are on the government front benches.
Most on the opposition front benches haven't figured out how to be a
criminal.




--

..andy

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