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wrote:

Bill:

I just posted this to the thread about using coffee as a component of
filler. If you are grinding up the CA into microfine particles and
inhaling them (yes, even through a dust mask) then I cannot imagine the
end result being any different.

Again, it begs the question, why expose yourself needlessly? You can
be doing damage now that won't show up for years... cynanide compounds
are well known for their residual effects.

Group:

Just a quick warning, take it for what it is worth. Note that the
ingredients of CA contain (prominently!) cyanoacrylate.

And you believe that this is significant because?

We have a bona fide research chemist

What has he researched? Where did he get his doctorate?

in our group, and he has warned us
about using key filings or any other kind of non ferrous metals with
CA. According to him, the smoke that come off the metal in reaction to
being mixed/exposed to the glue is actually the molecules of cyanide
being released, and therefore you have a mild form of cyanide gas!

What smoke? I don't recall ever seeing cyanoacrylate adhesives smoke when
combined with _anything_ except heat.

They do make fumes when set on aluminum foil and heated--this is a technique
that police use regularly in obtaining fingerprints from various articles.
The standard recommendation is that a cup of coffee or hot water be used to
provide the heat rather than a hot plate, because cyanide can develop above
400 degrees F or so.

Just a heads up... I know there are those here that will intentionally
huff the smoke/fumes to be contrary and will come back here to announce
they are not dead.

Any more than the cops you use this technique are dead.

But remember you basic chemistry classes... it makes sense! Even if it
doesn't, WTF is that smoke anyway? Why take a chance?

What makes sense? Please describe the reaction that you believe takes
place.

As for "WTF is that smoke", well, when it hits fingerprints it turns into
cured superglue so one may assume that it's vaporized superglue, unless
there is something magic about fingerprints that causes cyanide to
magically metamorphose into superglue, but if that is the case then I would
have expected someone to notice.

If you believe that it is cyanide vapors then what atom or molecule do you
believe is attached to the CN radical? And how does it become separated
from the remainder of the cyanoacrylate molecule? Where does it come from?
And why does the molecule break there instead of at the bond to the COOCH3
group?

Just last year I went to a demo by a well known turner that claims that
one of the folks in his club can no longer turn as he was a fan of
using CA as finish (flood the surface, sand off and polish). After
about a month in the hospital they finally found out two things:

- Permanent nerve damage (tremors)
- Condition was consistent with cyanide poisoning

What else was it "consistent with"? "Consistent with cyanide poisoning" is
not the same thing as "caused by cyanide poisoning".

The conclusion was that as an avid turner, he finally hit his toxicity
point after about three years of that particular finish. He can no
longer turn.

Sorry, but that doesn't sound like any description of cyanide poisoning that
I can find. It does sound like sensitization to an allergen--what kind of
wood was he turning? Some of them can be quite dangerous that way, far
more so than cyanoacrylate adhesives.

Cyanoacrylates are used in surgery--if they caused any significant problems
I believe that they would have been noticed by the medical community.

Sounds to me like your chemist is just trying to scare people with a
half-baked idea.

Robert

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)