"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Tony Bryer wrote:

In article , Imm wrote:

Nonesene. Two homes that look the same, similar spec and price? But
one
has virtually no heating bills. ********!! What naive world are you
in.
The word "eco " sells.


"The reason why house-owners have generally chosen to spend money on an
unsustainable central heating system rather than on insulation can only
be
explained by the cheapness of gas and the social status of owning (and
selling) a house with central heating. By insulating the house to a high
degree the central heating system could have been very much smaller and
less expensive to run, but "economy" and "inconspicuous consumption" at
present carry little social cachet in mainstream society. Only a few
eco-pioneers such as Sue Roaf (Oxford Ecohouse), and CAT have been brave
enough to build and live in an autonomous house. For the masses, relying
as
they do on mortgages from ultra-conservative Building Societies,
conventional solutions dominate"

http://www.sustainable-housing.org.u...n%20Papers.htm


Actually, thats bollocvks too.
The reaosn why people haven't insulated houses is teh cost of doing it
is a large capital expsne, once you have shoved insulation in the loft
and fitted ghastly double glazing, in most older properties you are
faced with a SIGNIFICANT bill to do floor or wall insulation.

The sort of people who DO 'do up' propertioes for profit, will fol;low
the market. The average houseowner will not be nearly so concerned as
tro whethert his heating bills will be 600 or 1200 quid, as to whethert
he has two ensuite bathrooms with showers. Whicgh probably costs a
similar amount.

Take the above scenario, in which the superior house is 600 quid cheaper
to run. At current mortage rates (6% gross?) that is equivalent to
paying an extra 10 grand for the house.

Whilst you MIGHT be able to cavity inject a house for that, you
certainly won't be able to lift the floors and put down insulation under
for that. Its probably barely enough to replace teh windows with DG
units in teh sort of sized house a heating bill like that applies to.

What this means is, that at current fuel prices, super insulation unless
done at the time of building, where it is relatively cheap, is a
complete waste of money. It makes no commercial sense on a property you
inhabit for a few years.

Which is precisely why things are the way they are. If e,g, windows rot
teh are replaced with DG. Very low oppotunity cost. If doors leak seals
are fitted. Rooves are nsulated. Old boilers replaced with newer mpre
efficient ones. These are all thuibgs that are mainetance upgardes.

But insulating and old house is not worth it beyond a certain point.

New houses are to a stnadar where teh laws of dminishing returns start
to kkick in. What is easy to do is required. What is hard or expensive
to do, is not.

The point is a new house, and as you say they are cost effective to
superinsulate. A house can be built with zero heating, and this is proven
with many examples around, to be no more expensive to build than an energy
sucking house. Gear a whole industry to eco houses and the prices will drop
to what they build as standard today.

With existing homes the situation is very different. The payback period?
How long is a piece of string. Difficult to pin down. Currently the payback
will be quite short as oil is high in price. From what I read energy prices
will steadily go up in proportion to our income, so high insulation makes
sense and must have a shortish payback in existing homes.