Scott Willing wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:30:40 GMT, (Dave Mundt) wrote:


Greetings and Salutations....

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:29:43 GMT, Richard the Dreaded Libertarian
wrote:


On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 07:36:34 -0700, F.George wrote:

snip
Given the current economic/social/political environment your
concerns are well founded, however I think the primary or basic
problem will not be limited or unavailable [electrical] power,
but rather the more pervasive and dangerous problem of a lack of
spare parts, raw materials and most critical HSS and carbide
tools and blanks.

Whether by design or stupidity, the American
manufacturing/industrial infrastructure is rapidly being
destroyed, primarily by management "outsourcing" and plant
transfer.

Thank you, Chicken Little.

Hum...so you DON'T think it is a problem that America
is losing the knowledge, skills and tools to manufacture
even the basic tools we need to keep society going and the
infrastructure kept up?


Consider the (tongue in cheek of course) upside: We're also exporting
all the toxic aspects of manufacture and mind-numbing, RSI-prone jobs
overseas, where the Chinese and others can gleefully destroy their
corner of the environment and burn through workers without the pesky
EPA or labour standards in the way. Although - if you remember ye
olde "Asian brown cloud" - you might rightly regard this as farting
down a tube, only to have the smell return eventually. It's a small
planet.

Last night on the news there was footage of armed government troops
(police, whatever) forceably "relocating" Chinese farmers. Probably to
make way for another widget factory to feed the Wal-Mart cash export
conveyor.

Ever tried to get through so much as a month -- a week -- without
buying something made in China? Difficult and disturbing.

I try to buy locally produced and supplied goods as much as possible.
Being a Canuck, I look for Canadian-made goods first, then US-made
goods. These days I consider myself lucky to find something made in
the US much less in Canada. However I recently became aware that
countries like the US (dunno about Canada) can set up special regions
in overseas countries that are classified as sovereign extensions of
the homeland.

Mexico -- Maquialldora.

(Sorry the proper term escapes me.) In this way they can
run sweatshops in wire-fenced compounds and legally print "Made in
USA" on the goods produced there.

Don't think so.



If that ain't double-speak, Mr. Orwell, I dunno what is.

-=s



With the trade deficit [current account trade balance]
approaching 2 billion dollars *PER DAY* it does not require a
degree in rocket science or a tarot deck to see that the time is
near when imports by the U.S. economy will be on a C.O.D. or even
a "pre-pay" basis [in gold, not dollars].

Odd, that's not what my crystal ball tells me. ;-)

And that "trade deficit" is the stupidest boogeyman ever perpetrated -
well, at least up in the top five stupid boogeymen - since the
nervous nellies found out that it's a scary buzzword.

Do you even have any idea what a "trade deficit" _is_? It means
we have two billion dollars more per day to spend on their crap
than they have to spend on our crap. That means WE ARE TWO BILLION
DOLLARS RICHER THAN THEY ARE!!!!! PER DAY!!!!!!!!!!

You have a significant "trade deficit" with the grocery store.
How much do you spend there? Maybe $100.00/week? That's a ONE
HUNDRED DOLLARS PER WEEK TRADE DEFICIT with the grocery store.
They don't buy anything from you, do they?

And imagine your employer's trade deficit with _you_! He buys
your labor for, what, $50K, $100K/year? How much stuff do you
buy from him? Your EMPLOYER HAS A SERIOUS TRADE DEFICIT WITH
YOU!!!!!

"Trade Deficit". Pfaugh!

Thanks!
Rich
UT o

While your point may have some validity here, the
major difference is that the money in your examples is
circulating INSIDE the USA. The dollars spent in a
foreign market are dollars that are taken out of the
economy "forever".
As an analogy, if dollars are the life-blood
of the economy, foreign trade is like cutting an
artery.
Now...The fact of the matter is that SOME of
those dollars DO come back in, but, since it is a
DEFICIT, far more are going out than are coming in.
Those dollars have to be replaced in the economy
somehow. One "bad" way is to simply print more
money. While this gets more bucks in circulation,
it also cuts down on the value of each dollar.
We have to remember that the world economy
is more like a war than a cheerful family gathering.
All the countries in the world are jockeying to
gain advantage over the other countries, and, one
way to do that is to drain the cash of one country.
America, although economically large, is
not infinite, and, if we believed we were, we would
be fools. The fact that the dollar has dropped
in relative value on the world market is proof that
the deficits are having their desired effects. Also,
remember that the growing European Union can (and
perhaps already has) become a larger economic power
than America.
Finally, there is the basic problem that
the world, in general, is not a friendly place.
Countries that were our friends are now our
enemies; countries that were our enemies are
now our friends; The only lesson we can
learn from this is that this is likely to
happen again, so, to end up totally dependent
on another country for our major manufacturing
is a stupid thing to do.

Regards
Dave Mundt




--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek