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On Tue, 31 May 2005 17:06:47 GMT, (Dave Mundt) wrote:

Greetings and Salutations....

On Tue, 31 May 2005 09:35:10 -0400, "firstjois"
wrote:

Prometheus wrote:
On Sun, 29 May 2005 18:37:58 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:
[snip]

Someone with whom I have never agreed in my life actually asked the
following question, "Can sharp stick control be far behind?"
wondered LaPierre's erstwhile opponent, Peter Hamm of the Brady
Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence" Of course, he said this tongue
in cheek, but still ....

What is tongue in cheek about this? My two-inch elementary school scissors
were taken last time I went on an airplane. The ends were no more pointy
than the non-business end of a ballpoint pen. "Dangerous" was what I was
told. If I'd been wearing open-toed shoes would they have made me clip (or
remove) my toenails?

Josie

Now that we have had several years of these unconstitutional
collections, and, the Feds have displayed (with amazing pride) the
millions of nail files, blunt scissors and other items that they
have collected "to make travel safer", I wonder if anyone has
considered (or cares) that before 9/11 travellers were carrying
all these and more lethal items, yet, how many incidents of
folks being attacked and wounded or killed on airline flights
where there? How many flights have been hijacked by idiots
wielding blunt scissors, nail-files or zippo lighters?

I've said this since 9/12 -- it's just another example of the government
learning the wrong lesson and applying the wrong solution to the problem.

But then, I am one of those "gun nuts" who believes that
the problem on 9/11 was not that there were too many weapons
on those planes, but, that there were too few. I suspect that
having a few folks on the plane with CCW permits AND their
weapons would have changed the outcome of the event considerably.

Had an event like this occurred after the founding of the country (or even
less than 100 years ago), your solution would have been that advocated by
the country's leaders. However, at that time we had real leaders who
understood that their right to govern rested in the hands of the people and
not that the rights of the people rested in the hands of the government.

I also think that this "airport security" thing is more
smoke and mirrors, designed more to make the citizens THINK that
something is being done, rather than a strong effort to actually
improve safety in America.

Definitely agree with this sentiment, especially immediately following
9/11 with all the NG troops in the airport.

It is also getting us used to the
idea of random searches as being acceptable and normal...part of
that slippery slope towards totalitarianism that America seems
to be on. I could be wrong, and, it could be that these
unreasonable searches and siezures have foiled a number of
hijack plots involving nail files and blunt scissors...but I doubt
it.

That started years ago with instilling the idea that random searches were
OK in schools, getting the youngsters used to the idea that checking them
out for their own safety was a good idea. OTOH, this whole concept was
exacerbated and initiated by the actions of those from the drug culture of
the 60's who used their freedom to mask activities detrimental to our
country's youth.

About the only thing that I can see that has really helped
the situation is the increased quality of the door and partition
between the cockpit and the rest of the plane. Making it impossible
(or at least very difficult) to get in there to take over the
controls goes a long way towards changing the threat of a hijacking.

Yep, it gives the rest of the passengers time to get to the nuts before
they can cause problems. As several instances following 9/11 showed,
although our government didn't get it, the *citizens* did get it. It
wasn't that some nutbars got on the plane with weapons that caused the
mayhem, it was the fact that citizens had been conditioned and told by
their leaders and others in authority that when in the situation of a
hijacking (or other crime for that matter), one should not fight the
criminals doing the hijacking, but submit -- that way noone, or only a few
would be hurt. The citizens figured out after 9/11 that that was a
bald-faced lie (if it ever was true), and you can pretty well rest assured
that in the future should such a stunt be attempted again, the passengers
of those planes will use whatever means are in their possession, no matter
how they have been disarmed by the government, to protect themselves and
prevent the hijackers from achieving their objective. That is what I meant
by the government learning the wrong lesson.

The bottom line is that there was a time, not that long
ago, when travel in America was a pleasure and a recreation. Now,
though, it is a difficult chore that few folks look forewards to
getting caught up in. That, I think, is a sad fact that means
that the terrorists DID win.

I used to love flying. Now I absolutely hate it and will do whatever I
can to avoid it. Actually, I still like flying, I just hate getting to the
airplane. I'm one of those balding middle-aged white guys who seems to
get singled out for the "random" search almost whenever I fly (I think I'm
at about 75%). My theory is that they "randomly" search x number of people
like me, a few 90 year old grandmothers, some toddlers, and some elderly
people in wheelchairs so that they can search 1 person who actually looks
like a potential threat in order to avoid being accused of profiling (but
then I'm probably just being paranoid). If the trip would take 10 hours or
less to drive, I pretty much prefer to drive.

Over this past Memorial Day holiday, I spent some time
meditating on the sacrifices made by so many Americans both for
this country and for countries around the world. I can only
hope that the citizens of today will, somehow, have it dawn
on them that security is not the responsibility of the government,
but the responsiblity of every citizen. We need to take back
responsibility and not push it off on the Feds, as that is the
only way America can survive and stay on a positive track.

Yep.

Regards
Dave Mundt

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If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

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