"Chris" wrote in message
ups.com...
Winfield Hill wrote:
Chris wrote...


I feel the IP is embedded in the instrument, not the manual. Thus
the manual provides a way to make use of the IP you've bought and
paid for in the instrument. It's the old instruments HP / Agilent
no longer supports that we're talking about here. The simple fact
is that there are *far* more instruments out there, than original
manuals, because when one goes surplus the company's file drawers
of manuals tend to get thrown away or otherwise lost, while the old
instrument exchanges hands a few times and finds a new home.

Plus there are manuals that disappear for who knows what reason.
The manuals for some HP equipment I purchased new when I came to
the
Institute 17 years ago somehow no longer exists at the Institute.
Did a postdoc carry it off with him in his files when he left? Did
it get thrown out by mistake? Who can say, but it's gone. And now
a copy is not available from Agilent, the product line having been
discontinued long ago... So I do rely on others who are willing to
make a copy to keep the IP in my instrument useful.


--
Thanks,
- Win


Thanks for taking the time to respond, Mr. Hill. I stand corrected --
there are far more "orphaned" old HP instruments out there than
original manuals. Your point is valid.

Maintaining an instrument document control system is relatively easy
in
a manufacturing facility with a limited number of engineering
personnel. It's certainly much more difficult in an academic
environment with dozens or even hundreds of students who all want
access to the instruments and their manuals, and don't have enough
experience with instruments to make educated guesses about how they
work.

That doesn't make sense. All the department has to do is hand over the
manuals to the library (this _is_ in an academic emvironment!) and let
them put the manuals in Reserve, where they can be checked out for a
very limited amount of time, say two hours, and not be taken from the
facility. The student can then peruse, or even copy them if he has a
pocketful of dimes. At least this is how we do it at the college where
I work. Actually, the student can now buy credits on a card to put in
the copier, so he doesn't even need coins to make copies. One can see
this big warning sign above the copier with legalese about copyright
restrictions etc. Mostly ignored. :-P

[snip]

I agree that the value of the instrument is inherent in
the instrument itself, not the manual. But just the fact that we're
having this conversation indicates the documentation is of value,
although of another kind. It allows me to utilize the investment in
the instrument.

Everyone, including the legal system, should view certain types of
manuals as different than other IP. In the case of an instruction
manual, this is is directly related to the instrument, and has no real
use or value on its own. Therefor the owner of an instrument should
have the right to own this manual, no matter where or how it was
obtained. I would go as far as to say that the instrument maker should
be obligated to supply one to the owner upon proof of ownership, but the
makers wouldn't want to be stuck with that responsibility.

OTOH the repair, service, maintenance manuals are another case, and
since they might reveal something about the instrument that's not
notmally available to the owner, the owner wouldn't have any right to
these manuals.

[snip]

Thanks again (and the check is still ready to be signed ;-)
Chris