Winfield Hill wrote:
Chris wrote...


I feel the IP is embedded in the instrument, not the manual. Thus
the manual provides a way to make use of the IP you've bought and
paid for in the instrument. It's the old instruments HP / Agilent
no longer supports that we're talking about here. The simple fact
is that there are *far* more instruments out there, than original
manuals, because when one goes surplus the company's file drawers
of manuals tend to get thrown away or otherwise lost, while the old
instrument exchanges hands a few times and finds a new home.

Plus there are manuals that disappear for who knows what reason.
The manuals for some HP equipment I purchased new when I came to the
Institute 17 years ago somehow no longer exists at the Institute.
Did a postdoc carry it off with him in his files when he left? Did
it get thrown out by mistake? Who can say, but it's gone. And now
a copy is not available from Agilent, the product line having been
discontinued long ago... So I do rely on others who are willing to
make a copy to keep the IP in my instrument useful.


--
Thanks,
- Win


Thanks for taking the time to respond, Mr. Hill. I stand corrected --
there are far more "orphaned" old HP instruments out there than
original manuals. Your point is valid.

Maintaining an instrument document control system is relatively easy in
a manufacturing facility with a limited number of engineering
personnel. It's certainly much more difficult in an academic
environment with dozens or even hundreds of students who all want
access to the instruments and their manuals, and don't have enough
experience with instruments to make educated guesses about how they
work.

Agilent and other manufacturers might be inclined to cut academic
institutions some slack as far as making copies of manuals for internal
use. I'm sure they want their meters to be specified by as many future
engineers and professors as possible. Considering your special
requirements, they may be inclined to allow a limited waiver in your
case.

People who need the OP/SV manuals will generally get them, whether
through purchasing a used manual, copying one from someone else, or
another means. The market, like life, usually finds a way. Although I
can understand why, I don't think not selling new manuals helps Agilent
get more business. They may wake up some day and farm out their
obsolete instrument documentation orders to either a book on demand or
lawyer's/barrister's Xeroxing firm. They could provide ring- or
comb-bound copies of these operating and service manuals with only an
additional day or two on turnaround compared to keeping thousands of
cubic meters of printed manuals on the shelf in stock. I know of
several automation machinery manufacturers that do just this with their
prints and manuals very profitably. Until then, Agilent is
perpetuating a bad setup, and annoying loyal customers.

I guess I'll keep doing it my way, though. If one is willing to pay,
there isn't much of a shortage of manuals now on most common older
"orphaned" HP instruments these days. (Of course, if more people felt
the way I did, the limited supply would undoubtedly dry up, as you
suggested.) I agree that the value of the instrument is inherent in
the instrument itself, not the manual. But just the fact that we're
having this conversation indicates the documentation is of value,
although of another kind. It allows me to utilize the investment in
the instrument. And I find that value sufficient that, if I cut a CER
for a used/reconditioned "orphaned" HP instrument, I'll make sure to
include the purchase price of a legal copy of the manual from
ManualsPlus or another of the instrument documentation resellers along
with it. I'm saving more than enough by buying used to afford a little
more for the docs. As a bonus, I can get it FedExed so it arrives
before the instrument, and I will have read it and be just about ready
to roll when the box arrives.

Thanks again (and the check is still ready to be signed ;-)
Chris