Dave,

If you're going to correct my spelling, make sure yours is spot on. (Hint:
It isn't. Let's just start with "creaters." Oh, and "people" is already
plural...the apostrophe goes before the 's.')

And thanks for "fixing" my top-posting. (Another hint: If it ain't broke,
don't fix it.)

And you still don't get what I was trying to say in the first place. SP2
didn't "break" spyware...it broke the computers that were infested with it.
Much of that spyware was loaded on computers willingly by users. They
downloaded and installed programs which they were completely unfamiliar with
(Kazaa comes to mind) and had no idea they were then being spyed upon. So
your contention that the "real" problem was that SP2 broke legitimate
software is...well...it's pretty much your opinion. Those whose computers
wouldn't reboot because they installed some dumbass adware would argue
differently.

As for the "real" software it broke (as opposed to virtual software, I
guess), yes there were many applications "broken" as a result. My claim,
which you didn't bother to attempt to disclaim (no doubt realizing the
futility), was that it wasn't in the hundreds, but rather in the dozens. So
as to "...no matter how you count them," I'm using base-ten numeration. Get
on board: 31 is not equal to "hundreds."

I am now tired of this conversation.

But more so of you.


"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:07:00 -0400, Mark Cooper
wrote:

(Top-posting fixed)

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 21:51:09 -0400, Mark Cooper
wrote:
David,

I'm in the software industry, and as I recall, SP2 mostly reaked havoc
on
computers that had spyware programs running on them. If your PC was
relatively clean, you were usually okay with the install.

Microsoft's own list of incompatible applications differs from your
speculation. Couple hundred apps that it broke.

Gee...you must be "speculating" on what Microsoft's own list of
incompatible
applications says, because I checked out the documentation and counted a
grand total of...31. In addition, there were another 30 or so that
needed a
port opened manually...easy enough. Yes, technically that "broke" this
second group, but the woodworking equivalent would be to say your saw was
broken because you needed to tighten your arbor nut.

And yet it directly counters your claim that "SP2 mostly reaked(sic) havoc
on computers that had spyware programs running on them.". Not only was
that not the problem, but the problem really was with legitimate
applications, however you count them.

Look, I'm not a Microsoft apologist by any stretch. I think they're a
****ty company run by a worse human being, and they give the entire
software
industry a bad name with their horrid QA.

OK, but...?

But the fact of the matter is that XP was a security nightmare, and SP2
fixed the vast majority of the problems.

Yes. XP is a security nightmare, and SP2 is a compatibility nightmare.
I'm not saying people shouldn't go to SP2 if they've chosen to inflict
windows on themselves, I'm saying that it broke real peoples' real
software,
not "infested machines" as you claimed.

You should have it on your
computer if you're running Windows XP. End of story.

Yes. But it broke more than just infested systems. AMD processors,
for instance, in some cases ended up being unbootable after the patch
was put in place. Hardware layer, not app layer or even OS layer.

The issue I was describing was the problem many users had when their
spyware-infected PCs crashed completely after loading SP2. Many of them
never got their PC's operating again. Was that Microsoft's fault? Nope.

That's arguable at best. MS's crappy design decisions are what made
their OS (and only their OS) susceptible to spyware, so they're at least
secondarily responsible. Of course, the spyware, spammer, and virus
creaters should be taken out and shot, but making a system wide open
by design is definitely on MS's list of things they've done wrong.

By definition, spyware doesn't belong on a computer. You paid your
money,
you took your chances. Microsoft now advises that you rid your computer
of
spyware before you install SP2.

Which is fine.

Common sense tells you to rid your computer of spyware anyway.

Of course.

Check your attitude at the keyboard.

Which is odd to see from you, given that my message was taking exception
to your claim that it was about breaking infested computers, rather than
breaking legitimate apps on a well-maintained windows box. That's all.
SP2 sucks. XP sucks without SP2. By now, most third-party apps that
were screwed by SP2 have released patches, so if you haven't patched it
by now, it's your own damn fault. But, it _did_ break legitimate apps,
not just spyware.