On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:17:19 +0100, "IMM" wrote:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .

Not everybody will benefit from an academic
university education. That's obvious because not everybody is
academically gifted.

They must be academically gifted to be
accepted for uni. Can't you figure that out?

If you lower the standard enough,

Proof of lowered standards please.

Search on Google. There are dozens of references




Tory thinking is class ingrained.

Really? I've found people of all political persuasions in all walks
of life so I can only assume that you don't get out much......


There is no reason why people from one class or background or another
should be more or less academically able or more or less practically
able.

That is true, then why is it that Oxbridge has 50% of its students from fee
paying schools.

What does that have to do with anything, except that fee paying
schools often, but don't always produce students with more academic
qualifications.



The problem lies in the misguided belief that academic education and
institutions delivering it should be delivered to everybody or at
least a substantial proportion.

Quite right too.

It isn't though.

It is.


It's behind you.


That is plainly impossible, because
only a small percentage actually *do*
benefit from a high level
academic education.

Another meaningless empty statement.

If somebody is presented with academic teaching or opportunity to
learn that is beyond their capability, what possible benefit can it be
to them.

You have an assumption that those going to uni are not capable. Tory class
badgering again.

Nothing to do with that. If somebody doesn't have academic ability,
they don't have academic ability and that's that. Class, if indeed
it exists at all, has nothing to do with it.



I happen to be reasonably able academically. I can't play football
or plaster walls to save my life. People make perfectly good
livings out of both of these.

The last three are mainly working class.

Only in your stereotyped view of life



The mistake is in not accepting that
but in dropping standards to make
it happen.

No proof of this.

There's no need for any - it's blindingly obvious.

Proof please.

Search on Google.


It does a disservice to the students and reduces skill
levels. Not what should be happening at all.

University is geared in the UK to make you think, not supply you with
craft
skills.

As it should be. So what then is the point in subjecting people who
don't have the intellectual skills to benefit from it to something
that is inappropriate for them.

You have an assumption that those going to uni are not capable. Tory class
badgering again.

I've made no such assumption. Intellectual and academic ability are
not related to "class" or to political persuasion, although I might be
persuaded otherwise when I read some of your postings on the matter.



I used to be subjected to football and cross country running at
school. I hated both and they didn't benefit me one iota because I
was useless at them.

Made you fit.

I had plenty of other ways to do that.


Others did well at that

How many played for Chelsea?

Who knows?


The even bigger mistake is in arguing that this has to do with
snobbery and elitism.

It is, as Little Middle Englanders are obsessed with petty snobbery.

I don't know any.

You can't see the wood for the trees.

I think that that is definitely a case of the pot calling the kettle
black.



It has nothing to do with those at all.
You can have excellence in particle
physics and excellence in
carpentry. Both are important to society
as a whole.

But you want the carpenter to come from the council estate. How dare
they
sent him to a uni with your kids in!

I haven't said that at all

Clear implication.

There must be some very odd things going on in your head if you were
able to reach that conclusion from what was said.




Tory class badgering wants the working class away from their lot.

What on earth are you talking about?




Nothing wrong with that. Landowners are rich through rip off. They hold
the country back.

Outdated ideas of a class system and people with chips on their
shoulders do that.


You still don't get it. Only a few own the vast majority of the land. Our
land, as we own it as we have sovereignty over it.

Ownership is defined by who holds the title. End of story.




I don't have the time to waste and split
hairs over land and property.

You shiuld, as you know very littel of what hold the country back.

I don't have the time to waste on reflecting on nonsense like that.
If you want to, then that is up to you. I'm not interested.



I don't consider myself to be ripped
off in this regard

Because you don't know. You have been subject to propaganda over your
lifetime, sucked it in and love it. That is very sad.

The significant ripping off that is going on is excessive taxation and
government intervention.
..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl