Morris Dovey wrote:
Actually, specs seem to (at least almost) always be flawed in one way o=
r=20
another - no matter whether you're cutting and pasting Verilog blocks o=
r=20
MDF blocks.
=20
Real competency appears to lie in being able to emerge from the manure =

pile smelling like roses. In more formal terms, gaining sufficient=20
understanding of the project's real needs to produce something that=20
satisfies them (and perhaps helping to modify the spec along the way, s=
o=20
that everyone learns.)

Can't argue with that.

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IMO, agreeing to participate in any development effort includes=20
agreement to participate in debugging the specs - because there isn't=20
any other way that works. People who sidetrack into issues of rightness=
=20
and wrongness /subtract/ from constructive effort.

or that... (usually) :-)

FWIW, in so far as it was intended to, it meets the spec. I produced a =

reject on the first try, corrected the software part program, and got a=
=20
good part on the second try. Normally I don't photograph and show the=20
contents of the scrap bin; but did this time so that I could post befor=
e=20
servers began pruning the thread.

Like to see them

If the work had been done for a customer and if the part that met the=20
spec had not been what was needed, both the customer and I would have=20
decisions to make about what came next.

Always the case :-)

People don't pay for things that don't work. they assume a
credible supplier will "make it right" and fix a bad design.
Not fair -- but that is experience. (Yes it is anecdotal -- I
know) :-)
=20
=20
Glad you put the smiley there, because people always pay for things tha=
t=20
don't work. They pay in time, in effort, in credibility, in goodwill,=20
and all of these things have real value. Perhaps because I've been=20
lucky, my customers have always paid me - or perhaps it's because I've=
=20
taken pains to think and speak of myself and my customer as co-producer=
s=20
of /our/ product.


That's what I always thought...


From time to time I've had clients (not many, and not in WW - that=20
issued PO's, that loved the work, got value from it) then decided not to =

pay because "their budget ran short" -- and I do mean they were=20
satisfied and admitted it -- in no uncertain terms. Simply did not wish=20
to pay -- even though they made money off the work. After that I got=20
more cautious.

Not worth anyone's speculation on this -- they did admit that the PO's=20
were not properly approved and all - but no way for me the supplier to=20
know... Even the Purchasing agent was shocked. He left shortly after in=20
the incident with that one large client -- and admitted later I was not=20
the only one to get a "special deal".

Hence the caution these days...

If it did, then Morris proved what everyone else just talked
about, and he proved it to be different than what everyone
else just talked about.
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=20
Well - yes and no. "Yes" because I have atypical shop capabilities and =

in typical shops there'd have been a need for a fair amount of careful =

planning and fixture/jig design and fabrication before a part could be =

produced; and "no" because most people weren't thinking in terms of CNC=
,=20
where a lot of the jigs/fixtures/templates are nothing more than text=20
files and software on a computer.

True - not CNC.

Now that I know someone who has the capability.. I will not ignore the=20
work I see that could use it. However, everyone I see knows now that I=20
did not want (could not do) that work -- so I will not likely see=20
anything in the near future...

=20
Interesting conclusion. Maybe we should have a long chat in a
bar or coffee house one day. After Morris reports -- if he is
allowed to...
=20
=20
'S hard to shut me up. (-:
=20
I'd like to make a motion that we meet in my shop (I-80 exit 110 in Iow=
a=20
- map on web site) for coffee.
=20

Maybe this summer or fall -- I will be going in that general direction=20
at holiday time...


A lot of this discussion has been philosophical (isn't philosophy an=20
important part of woodworking?) The value of a job isn't really just=20
man/machine hours or "what the market will bear" - as Patriarch, Tom=20
Watson, and others here remind us from time to time.


Yeah -- interesting to see the various approaches...

=20
=20
In this instance it's a moot issue. The OP's deadline has passed and=20
he's found an alternative solution.

That's pretty normal.

The old adage is true: "When you're up to your ass in alligators, it's =

hard to remember that the original objective was to drain the swamp."=20

I think I live by that.... or maybe it's that people around me do. Hmmm.

/I'm/ wondering what kind of gourmet goodies will go in the molded=20
plastic trays - and will they go well with coffee?

The you are a deeper thinker than I. :-)


Nice to know you are there and available.

--=20
Will R.
Jewel Boxes and Wood Art
http://woodwork.pmccl.com
The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those=20
who have not got it.=94 George Bernard Shaw