John Rumm wrote:

In your one man crusade to win the affections of IMM,

Couldn't care less, even if he is the man with the mojo. The point of
the posting was to highlight the ridiculous deification of Andy.


it seems to be
yourself lacking grasp in this situation. Andy has made it very clear

what factors he considers important for his tool purchases. Given
those,
it seems entirely appropriate that he dismisses a large section of
the
low end offings, if for no other reason than their distribution model

precludes the sort of after sales service and support that he
requires.
Why is that so difficult to understand?

What's difficult to understand is why people hang on his every word and
never entertain the notion that he might be only human. If Andy wants
to spend his money on particular tools, good luck to him. His decision
is based on his opinion, not on fact. Why does he have to keep ramming
his opinion down IMM's throat? What purpose does that serve apart from
making Andy feel superior?

It does not seem to be snobbery
to base your purchasing decisions on how close a fit to *your*
requirements a tool gets.

No, it turns into snobbery when you persistently ridicule everyone who
doesn't agree with you in a humourless and vindictive way.


It should also be clear that Andy enjoys using fine quality tools.

And it should surely be equally clear that Andy likes the sound of his
own voice, since it's the only purpose those posts serve.


So do
I. There are some tools I have, that can put smile on your face every

time you pick them up and use them (and no, not from the vibration!).
It
is difficult to qualify what exactly what that X factor is, but it
seems
to be (to me at least) combination of good design, performance,
smoothness of operation, and quality of results achieved. Sometimes
everything about it is "right".

Yes, I agree but what you or I consider "right" is not necessarily what
others consider "right" so whilst I might reject a 40 quid SDS hammer
on the grounds that 6kg is inconvenient to me, it might be fine for
someone else's needs. If they asked for buying advice, I might suggest
that lighter ones are easier to use but I'm not going to wage a
miserable years-long campaign against them for not agreeing with me.


If Andy did the same, then that would be hypocritical. However I
don't
feel that he does. He has a long standing history on this group of
providing detailed quality information. If he gives an opionion he is

also always ready to explain *why* he is of that opinion, withuot
resorting to IMM style "I am always right, trust me" statements.

That just isn't true. Andy is as prone as IMM (and any of the rest of
us) to wheeling out his pet hobby horses. He just has force of
personality and a better facility for dressing it up in some florid
language which makes it seems reasonable - but ultimately, many times,
it collapses under analysis. Andy has brands he likes (like the rest
of us) and he praises them and dismisses the rest without looking.
There are people on the group who want to believe it and so turn off
their critical faculties.


No, I believe he says that for many users, a slight error may not be
critical. Much depends on the type of work you are doing.

I can't believe the contortions we'll go through on this group rather
than admit any failing on Andy's part. If it's built to acceptable
tolerances, why go on about it? If it's not, then what's the point of
paying through the nose for it?



Well as highlighted, the Ferm could do 90 degrees on one axis, but
sadly
failed on the latteral one!

So does that make it better than a DeWalt that doesn't do 90 degrees?
If they're both slightly out-of-whack, is the 40 quid one better value?


You are engaging in IMM style argument "extension into absurdity".

No, I was exagerating for humorous effect (up to you whether you find
it humorous). Andy does not know whether his return of a CD had any
affect on Virgin's relationship with its supplier, although he chooses
to present it here as if it did, exaggerating his own achievement, and
making one question how much his tool reviews/opinions can be relied
upon and wonder about the point of such self-aggrandizing posts .


However, do you not suppose it likely that next time the sales
assistent flogs another CD of the same type he may not check?

Student, part-time job, minimum wage. Hard to say.


That may have been the case, does this however justify us all acting
as
dumb sheep consumers?

No, John, my point is that you shouldn't act as dumb sheep consumers.
You should expose what Andy says to the same critical light that you
do other people's postings. It doesn't always stand up.


Taking whatever service the system gives out
without complaint? You may not have bothered rectifying the
situation,
prefering to get shafted,

Actually, John, I've taken stuff back to B&Q to be refunded or
price-matched before and not only have they given me the money back,
they recompensed me for my time. I haven't felt the need to bang on
about it on the group because I don't define my self-worth that way,
and I mention it now because you brought it up.

I didn't achieve it by slapping my swagger stick on the counter and
demanding to see the manager. I was just civil to the girl behind the
counter. You can all do it. It's not some talent unique to Andy.

but at least be greatful that some people do
take the time to highlight where there is a problem with a product or

service.
It is only because of their actions that there will be an
improvement for all of us.

You'll forgive me if I don't doff my cap and tug my forelock in
recognition of the great public service we peons have had bestowed upon
us by the Duke of Reading.

Come on, John, throw off your shackles. Get out of his shadow.



No, but one might factor Norm's obvious craftsmanship and the
respect of
his peers into one's buying decision.

A fact I am sure all the product placement and PR executives of the
tool
comapanies are well aware of when making offers to the producers of
such
shows...

Your point being what?

That Andy is as prone as anyone else to dismissing anything that
doesn't suit his opinion. Those pesky facts just get side-lined.


On the other hand, no-one of sentience would base their decision on
the
silly, self-aggrandizing proclamations of an arrogant, hectoring
windbag
who dresses up his prejudices in a veneer of pomposity and gets off
on
bullying people.

True... can't think of who you had in mind though.

Really?


If IMM posts nonsense, Andy (and many others) will counter that with
lucid explanation of the limitations of said nonsense.


And my point is that you should be as diligent in pointing out Andy's
nonsense, even if it is less frequent.


more or less absent from this exchange. One hopes they've
discovered
some measure of self-respect and realised that hanging out with the

playground bully is a not a position they want to be in.

Now you are talking nonsense! (IMHO).

Well, I have the greatest of respect for you, John, and I hope you will
take a moment to reflect on what's been said and perhaps acknowledge
that Andy isn't always right.

Mike