On 18 Feb 2005 14:12:13 -0800, jim rozen wrote:
In article , Dave Hinz says...

Anyone not stopping and looking both ways at a red light is
subjecting themselves and others to the same risk - who it is
doesn't matter, it's what they do. That's an example of an unsafe
act, which is already illegal.

It is *not* legal to stop, look both ways, and then proceed
on through, even if there is no cross traffic.

In some cases, Jim, it is. I have done it on many occassions. Before
you hyperventilate, these times have been in an emergency vehicle.

It's illegal
if you sail on through without looking, it's also illegal
if you stop, look both ways to be sure it's clear, and
then go on through.

Unless you are operating an emergency vehicle, yes.

This is an example of a 'bright line rule' that police
can use to issue tickets to offenders. There is no need
for the cop to watch and see if the driver is passing the
intersection safely or not. The light's red, the car
went through, he gets a ticket. End of story.

So then why don't you agree about the other inherently
unsafe acts? They're equally observe-able.

GOING THROUGH AN INTERSECTION WITH A RED LIGHT OVER IT
IS NOT AN INHERENTLY UNSAFE ACT.

Agreed.

It's the societal convention which says folks go on
green and stop on red, punishable by law, that implies
one is a raving mad dog lunatic if one does not stop
at red lights.

I think this point was made about 4 posts ago.

You're, once again, equating an inherently unsafe act with
talking on the cellphone, which sometimes coincides with people
doing inherently unsafe acts.

The state in this case has done the same thing with hand-held
cell phones. The statistical probability of performing
an unsafe act is so high that they've made using them
illegal. Not an individual choice. Because using them
is sufficiently distracting that on average it is a 'bad
idea.'

Yes, well, the state of California has also found that certain
solvents cause cancer. Does that mean they do? Of course not,
it just means that if you want to buy Polyurethane in California, you
get to read the label that tells you it's dangerous. Odd that
it doesn't cause cancer in other states. It doesn't mean it's true,
it just means that some special interest group convinced a group of
people who don't understand math, logic, and technology (that would
be, a state legislature) that they're right. Doesn't reflect fact,
just reflects that their story was better than the one based on
facts and logic.

In the same way that a driver deciding on his own, if a
red light means 'stop' or not, is a bad idea.

Apples and oranges. Again, running a red light is bad for anyone,
equally. Bad drivers with cellphones are bad drivers.