"Vinny" wrote in message
...
In article , Harold and Susan Vordos
wrote:
"Vinny" wrote in message
...
Regards the piping-------I know I'll sound like an idiot, but I
don't
have a
lot of faith in the plastic stuff. We used rubber hose, a product
made
by
Goodyear to Heatway's specifications for the purpose of hydronic
heating.
I figure it will tolerate a little misalignment, but at this point
that's a
non-issue. I'm sure the plastic would have worked equally as well,
and
it's
one hell of a lot cheaper to buy. We paid roughly 70¢/ft. for the
3/8"
rubber hose. While we didn't pay for a trace, they make the same
product
with a trace so it can be detected easily. I felt no need because
it's
placed deep enough.
Harold
Sorry to tell you this but Goodyear made some very bad hose in the
early 1990's, there E2 series. it caused Heatway to go bankrupt,
ruined 1,000's of heating systems. I had installed a few of them and
they failed. It was a disaster for the industry (and me) . There is
now a $ 200+ million class action settlement underway. Heatway was
bought by Watts, and now makes a very good all EPDM hose called Onix.
Which explains why the hose that was provided was the next generation of
hose, far different from that which was in their original catalog. The
hose we got is Onix (matches the description in the catalog we have
now),
and it isn't plastic. Our system has been active for 5 years and has
functioned flawlessly. Hoses that are exposed are still in great
condition.
Could you describe some of the problems the old hose yielded?
Anything in
particular I should keep watch for?
Harold
If you have Onix (Black) Hose you are fine.
Yep, that's it! I've been quite impressed with it, in fact. One concern
I've had right along was how it might react if oil got to it through cracks
in the floor, so I soaked a piece in oil for a while----didn't seem to be a
serious problem, and I can't imagine my floor ever getting that wet with
oil----I keep a dry (*very* dry) floor, with Oil-Dri generously spread
anywhere it's needed.
When I bought the hose, I was somewhat disappointed that the new hose didn't
state you could drive your cement truck over it while making the pour,
although that was never in the plan. I was just impressed that it was so
forgiving. Hearing what you have to say certainly makes my day. I dodged
a bullet, and only by shear luck. It did get walked on by the laborers
pouring the 'crete---there's on way you can avoid that when you're wrestling
with a boom dumping mud. I poured with the system under 60 pounds pressure
and had no problems. The hose was well tied at decent intervals, and on the
bottom side of the rebar, not on top. I saw to that.
FYI plastic radiant tubes called 'PEX' are fantastic when it comes to
durability and ability to withstand slab cracking . As long as the
crack happens over time the PEX just expands.
I investigated a couple systems before landing on Heatway, and PEX tubing
was included. I had a sample of the material, but couldn't come to terms
with the potential for expansion and misalignment, not knowing much about
it. I had a gut feeling that rubber hose would be more forgiving.
During the San Franscisco
earthquake to 1990? the slab cracking happened too fast for the PEX to
expand so much of it failed but the Heatway hose's did fine. PEX is
destroyed by direct sunlight !
We endured the 6.8 Nisqually quake (NW Washington) of three years ago with
not so much as a crack in the floor or any of the walls, and we're only 40
miles from the epicenter. The shop was doing some pretty fancy dancing.
From all indications, the amount of rebar I used, and the prep before
pouring the floor, provided an assembly that is relatively stable and would
have likely done just fine with the PEX.
At this point I have no regrets, so I'm installing the same material in the
house. Being a machinist/toolmaker by trade (retired), I made my own
manifolds and control panel, which I will also do for the house. It
turned out quite nicely and looks professionally done, not some kludged up
mess. I have no idea how the PEX is coupled, but the clamps and barb
fitting used by Heatway(Watts) makes it pretty easy. I have found no leaks
in the roughly 5 years the system has been in use.
Hose type radiant systems are great for commercial jobs where there are
lots of tradesman walking on the tubes. it is also kink proof which is
good for 'rookie' installers but by far its best use is staple-up
underfloor retrofit's under title, wood or carpet floors. it does not
expand and contract like PEX.
The staple up feature is what I'm counting on for the house, except for the
basement and garage, which each have the hose in the 'crete, which is only
4" thick. I won't be able to do any floor anchoring, but I didn't plan to,
anyway. Basement is strictly for storage and mechanical, with not so much
as one window.
I appreciate the fact that the rubber hose doesn't expand the way plastics
do, and is yet another reason I made a good decision.
Thanks for the great information.
Harold
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