"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...
TURTLE wrote:
"Don Klipstein" wrote in message
...
In article , TURTLE wrote:
SNIP
This is Turtle Again.
*** Octane Burns to make the car run good.
*** Additive clean and fix problems.
*** Yes Gasohol is different but it has a octane rating as the same as not.
Alcohol is a very good fuel to burn for if you will check up here on the
fuel
the cars in the Indy 500 are using. You will find out they use pure Alcohol
burning of the fuel. They don't use gas because you can get more power out
of
Alcohol fuel than unleaded gas. All the high speed or drag racer prefer Pure
Alcohol over unleaded gas. So if it is me, Give me 90% Alcohol and 10% gas
and
get more power and mileage.
Actually, alcohol has such a high octane rating that race car engines
designed to burn it have a higher compression ratio. (Indy cars burn
methanol rather than ethanol, but that does not change any other points.)
Without the higher compression ratio, an engine would actually get less
energy from a gallon of alcohol than from a gallon of gasoline. Fuel
mileage would actually be a little worse.
Cars often get very slightly less mileage with "gasohol" and other
"oxygenated fuel" because these fuels have slightly less chemical energy
per gallon.
Some high octane gasolines have (or at least had several years ago)
alcohol to boost the octane and as a result sometimes get/got very
slightly less fuel economy and power.
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As for higher octane than the instructions call for being necessary when
the engine has a lot of miles on it: This is *sometimes* true. The usual
cause is bad spark plugs (replace) or carbon deposits in the engine making
detonation occur more easily. Probably less likely if you properly
maintain your engine and air filter. But only use higher octane to the
extent necessary to eliminate knocking.
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- Don Klipstein )
This is Turtle.
You really confuse me with all the does and don't but I have to revert back
to look in the car info book in the glove box and get the octane rating that
the auto is to burn and use it. It the fuel you use has alcohol or any other
stuff in it but the fuel stated by the manufactor , it make little or no
difference in the operation of the auto and if the valve ping. If the engine
makes a noise or ping You have a motor malifuction and need to have it looked
at. Now if your drag racing or racing the autos I would follow your words as
to fuel for high speed driving and super power. In this case you would not
want to burn the 87 octane gas and set the injectors , Car computor chip /
speed chip , and timing system to burn the 97 or 104 octane fuel for maxium
speed and power.
Now I will tell you what happen to the Alcohol being put in the place of fuel
in the U.S.A. . We here in the area had a Alcohol manufactoring plant and was
making large amounts of alcohol to be used in the cars. I had a friend of
mine who was a engineer for them and when they shut the doors on it and we
talked about the cause of it closing. He said at the time it cost about $.60
a gallon to get it to the pump and gas was $.60 a gallon at the pump and the
oil companys was going along with the 10% mix of alcohol and 90% gas because
of shortage. At the time there was some research as to using more alcohol and
gas. It was determined that you could run a 50/50 mix alcohol and gas and
cars would run fine. At this time there was a push to do away with alcohol
because of it was no good to use and really was a bad choice for fuel. One
year later the Alcohol manufactoring plant here closed it was running 24 hour
a day 7 days a week and customers was buying it faster than they could make
it. They had a 6 month back log of orders for it but it was no good at all
for fuel for cars. He said if the market ever went with a 50/50 mix in the
gas fuel for cars it would cut the oil market share in half and make the oil
company take a super hit on profit that it expected to make off the 90% mix
fuel. at the 50/50 mix it would kill their business. Then in about 5 years
the plant was reopen to make a additive to remove water from the gas tanks
and was nothing but the same alcohol the added to the gas to have the 10/90
mix of alcohol. It was open for about a year and the plant had distribitor
who was selling the stuff by the gallon to remove the water but people was
just buying it to use as fuel at $.60 a gallon and gas had gotten up to $1.00
a gallon. They were using a 50/50 mix and worked fine. You could buy a 5 gal.
jug of alcohol for $3.00 and 5 gal. of gas was $5.00 at the pump. The E.P.A.
come down on them because of the people doing what they was doing and the
plant knew about it by making it in a 5 gal. jug. The E.P.A. made it so hard
on them that they closed in about 6 months for them finding everything under
the sun wrong with their plant. The plant now is nothing but a bunch of big
building in the middle of Soy bean and Rice fields in Franklenton, Louisiana
and a warehouse for a oil company to store and work on oil field equipment in
it. Everybody was growing corn at the time but went back to Rice and Soy bean
after it closed. I even burn some of it and it run fine but when oil speaks
Alcohol listens and gets out of the way. Yes the oil company put out all
kinds of data that says it was no good at all but like i said before Oil
speaks -- Alcohol listens and moves on.
So you will never see the alcohol really come back and compete with oil
again.
TURTLE
If they were selling the alcohol at 60 cents and gas was selling for $1.00, it
is no wonder they stopped making alcohol. You can make alcohol economically
if you use waste products. But you can't grow crops to make alcohol
economically because the energy you put into the process is greater than the
energy you get out of it. There may be some exception to that, but they are
few and far between.
This is Turtle.
Here is one for you to think about. A 100 pound sack of Whole Corn for cattle
feed will run about $6.00 and the moon shinners can make 20 gallons of shin
Alcohol out of a 100 pound sack of corn. Shin will burn in your care with no gas
at all and you can drink it too. It is 190 proof or 95% Alcohol and 55 water.
That is the samething as gas 94% gas and 6% water.
Now the Alcohol refining product can be bought at the feed store by the 100
pound sack of corn for $6.00 and makes 20 gallions of Alcohol that can be used
as fuel in the auto. Now base gas at $2.00 a gallion and that makes the alcohol
replacing the gas as follow here :
20 Gal. of Alcohol sells for $40.00 as replacement for gas.
20 Gal. of Gas sells for $40.00 as the gas fuel.
100 # of Corn raw crude to refine is $6.00 . So you have a profit and refining
cost of $34.00 for 20 Gal. of fuel / gas.
INFO first. A barrel of oil is 42 Gallons and a 1/2 a barrel of oil is 21 gal.
1/2 barrel of oil 21 gal. cost now about $25.00 so crude to make gas to make 20
gal. of gas cost $25.00 . Then $25.00 for crude to make 20 gal. of gas is
$25.00 - $40.00 = $15.00 refining cost and profit.
$25.00 worth of crude oil makes $40.00 worth of fuel / gas = $15.00 Profit and
Refining cost.
$6.00 worth of crude material / oil makes $40.00 worth of fuel / Alcohol / gas =
$34.00 Profit / Refining Cost.
So they can refine Corn at $6.00 to make $40.00 worth of fuel or they can refine
$25.00 worth of crude oil to make $40.00 worth of fuel. The $6.00 making $40.00
worth of fuel sounds a whole lot better than $25.00 worth of crude to make
$40.00 worth of fuel. The Corn is a whole lot cheaper to make the fuel than from
Crude oil.
Now the data of the 100 # of Corn can make 20 gal. of Shin is a fact in this
part of the country and i can get you to talk to Crocket Johnson who makes shin
and check the facts. This is a fact and no bull. Now of cource Crocket wants
$20.00 a Gal. for 190 proof / 95% Alcohol shine and it is the good stuff.
Alcohol can be made cheaper than gas now days but with the oil company against
it. Alcohol is just too costly to produce.
TURTLE
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