"RichardS" noone@invalid wrote in message
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"BigWallop" wrote in message
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"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"BigWallop" writes:

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...

And what difference would it make in this case?
The bloke will very likely have never heard of
it, and is very unlikely to care even supposing
he had.

But people are now telling me that electrical fires aren't an issue
but,
with all I see and hear around me, I think they most definitely are
now.
And they're on the increase.

You didn't answer the point.

All the government figures I can see show a steady drop,
except for a small momentary increase around 1995.

Andrew Gabriel


Looking at some of the postings just in this group, I can see some
electrical questions and proposals that frighten me. These are normally
about wiring problems and/or schemes which people are doing or have
actually
done. So I think the momentary increase in 1995 is about to happen
again.
That maybe why the government and institutions are doing something now
to
cover their own butts.

The new requirements will go a long way to covering the asses of the
insurance companies when and if policy pay outs should be due, and also
the
electrical suppliers when and if things go wrong in the DIY electrical
installations they attend with the fire brigade.

The postings here are from people who are actually trying to find out
the
best and safest ways to do the job. But just how many more aren't even
bothering to find out how and why it should be done, and are burning
their
houses down?


Surely legislation should be on the basis of evidence of a rising problem
or
on matters of important public policy, not an ever-more-complex rule book
based upon possibilities that might be forseen but for which no evidence
exists?

To put the scale of the problem into some kind of perspective, a
conversation that I recently had with a senior manager in a very well
known
insurance company was quite enlightening.

Apparently, your house is likely, on average, to be so seriously damaged
in
an accident that it requires major rebuilding once every _300_ years.
(interestingly, for thatched houses this figure is closer to once every
1000
years). I think that as he was making the point about people reducing
their
risk when aware of obvious dangers (barbeques/bonfires near the house)
then
this might have just related to fires, but I'm not certain of this.

So, I don't think that the major insurers are losing too much sleep over
the
dangers of unqualified (sorry, should read Unregistered) people doing
domestic wiring.

Even from the government figures, the numbers of people fatally injured in
electrical fires and from electrocution from fixed wiring is miniscule in
a
country of 60million plus people.

This is completely unjustified beaurocratic overkill.

Richard Sampson


I think people are only seeing the money side of things on this. All I read
in replies is the cost of this, and the cost of that, if these changes come
into play, it's going to cost Y extra to the trades people. What about the
lives at the end of this? Never mind "how many out of X inhabitants" die.
What about the small few that "are" crocking because of it?

You DIY wrong you DIE right, simple. Your fault? Or is it someone else's
fault? The electricity supplier must be at fault, right? The wiring
manufacturer is at fault, OK? The Sparks that installed it? The guy who
tested it "after" the sparks fitted it? Who's at fault if "you" cock up?
You?

Change of scenario. You have building work done by someone who has made
profit from that labour. What gets built, falls down within a year. Who do
you sue? Forget the ramblings about different contracts and things guys,
I've seen and heard it all before. I want the nitty gritty here. Who do
you sue?

Said builder is part of a voluntary organisation or scheme of some sort. He
has work recommended by them to other customers. He cocks up once, he gets
smack on wrist from organ grinder. He cocks up again, more severe warning
from the organ master. Third cock up and he's outta there, right? No more
work for real profit because he's useless, right? Wrong! He's allowed to
continue, even though he's not part of a national register of builders,
doing safe and sound work for profit.

Electrician is part of the same sort of voluntary scheme, organisation,
institute or whatever. He also has his work recommended by these scheme
things. He cocks up once, he gets smacked wrist. He cocks up twice, he
gets real roasting from said organisation. Third cock up and he's out
walking the streets, right? Another "guy next door does" wannabees? No!
He's also allowed to do work while not registered with a national register.
No more than a slight drop in wages.

Now make what was a voluntary scheme, compulsory. He must register with
some national registration scheme that can randomly check his work when and
if "they" see fit. Like CORGI, NACOSS Etc. are (should be). His third
cock up should show that he's not capable of doing this type of work. He's
a danger to others around him. He's useless, to put it bluntly. "But he
passed all the exams" He cheated !!! "He's been doing it for years". Get
all his work checked, NOW !!!

It brings in higher standards, and it brings in good all round workmanship
to everyone. House sales will need checked by registered and competent
schemes. These schemes will eventually weed out the crap, believe me.

Maybe I'm working in other countries to much, but the differences I see in
workmanship are amazing. Maybe it's the military training I went through to
get my qualifications, but the discipline I see in other peoples work is
terrible. I still hear the words "Oh bugger it, that'll do it. "Leave it
like that, it's good enough" on a what should be a site full of professional
people.

It isn't just the electrical trades that are coming under scrutiny. All
building and maintenance work is up for a re-shuffle. I think the sooner
these new schemes come in to force, and I mean force, the better for
everyone.

Sorry about the long ramblings again, but it really get to me this type of
thing. I work along side the people dealing with all the left leftovers of
these types of "Accidents" in the home. I see and hear what these people
have to deal with. I know of the statistics, and how they are shuffled to
make sense of them. These things need addressing, and if it has to take
government and law enforcement to bring it into line once and for all, then
so be it. My family and I live a building of over one hundred year in age.
It isn't square. It isn't truly upright, even. But it has stood on this
one spot for over one hundred years without even, what would now be, a
proper foundation working. Try achieving that with a new build now.

Just remember the lives saved at the end of this. Not the few that have
died.