"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 16:44:33 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

socket-outlet, control switch or ceiling rose;". To do this may
entail
working on the ring main. Simple. Obvious.

I didn't say that you can't "touch the ring main"

First of all it is a "ring final circuit".

I don't see the term "ring final circuit".

That is the term in BS7671. In the SI it is referred to as a ring
circuit.

Secondly one is allowed to change fittings.

Other works are controlled.

(b) replacing a damaged cable for a single circuit only;

[so you can replace the ring main or a radial circuit]

No.

Yes! You are exempted if the cable is
damaged and needs replacing. That may
mean the whole ring main. Simple. Obvious.

Of course. However, it is fairly
unlikely, and the intent is that
installing a new circuit is a
controlled activity.

"fairly unlikely" is not good enough.
It is either black or white in regs.
Installing a new cable on an existing
breaker is not a new circuit.

I agree. The intent of the legislation is
that you should be able
to replace *a* cable.

I'm interested in the intention, I am interested in the black and white
facts.

You have stretched it to the point
that the entire ring would need to
be replaced. That would mean a
new circuit and is therefore not
exempt.

(b) replacing a damaged cable for a single circuit only;

A ring main is a single circuit. FACT If any or all of the cables are
damaged that can be replaced right back to the breaker.

A damaged cable means just
that - e.g. somebody banged a
nail through a section. It is unlikely
that somebody would systematically
bang a nail through every section of
cable in a ring. That is what I meant
by "fairly unlikely".

I'm not interested in assumptions and opinions.

It is an obvious loophole.

They have simply listed the exemptions
because they thought that they
are fewer in number than listing what
is controlled in detail.

Not interested in opinions.. It is either black or white.

That is the problem. Twojags and
his cronies

NO! the permanent gov department.

By the way,,,, I am not seeking to defend this nonsense legislation.
I've repeatedly said that it's bull**** and achieves nothing because
it is unenforcable.

I would remind you that it was enacted by your friend Twojags and his
cronies.

No.by the relevant deptarbntments. I'm 2Jags doesn't know what a ring
mains
is.

I don't think he knows
which day of the week it is.

He does and he has a great left hook. My hero.

I have a letter in my file from Raynsford in answer to a letter
written to him by my MP, where it is clear that his hand had been in
this.

They do not write it up. Techie people from the department do. Then they
give it lawyers who convert it to gobbledy gook with hereuntos in it. BOY,
you really are naive.

snip babble

I am sure that if this ever does become a big issue (which
is unlikely), that he will seek to distance himself from it in exactly
the same shameful way that he has from hunting legislation.

He voted against hunting I believe. Fox hunters?
I would burn the lot 'em.

.. and DIY electricians no doubt.

No just fox hunters. Burn 'em.

Work which -

(a) is not in a kitchen, or a special location,

(b) does not involve work on a special installation, and

[So the above two say any work as long as it is not in a kitchen or
a
"special installation"]

No. You haven't read it correctly. The *and* at the end of (b)
means that conditions (a) (b) *and* (c) have to apply.

No "and" at the end of (a), so (a) not joined with (b) and (c).

There doesn't need to be because there is a comma.

I know that your English abilities are not strong, so when something
is expressed as (a), (b) and (c); it means (a) *and* (b) *and* (c).

No and after (a) when there is after others, so (a) is excluded. Simple.

I suspect that you probably are.

You are not used to legal docs that is clear. The "and" joins those beneath
it,. not above. Duh!

You can fit luminaires anyway.
12v is less than 50v by the way.

But you can't take away the rose
and fit a j box and transformer with wires
to the downlighters. Something to do
with cowboys and kitchens again.

Who knows? There are transformers
that fit in place of ceiling roses
and power pairs of wires onto which
are clipped lamps.