xrongor wrote:
"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...
xrongor wrote:
"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...
xrongor wrote:
flinging insults. i think 'i wont bother to explain to you' is an
insult.
lets start with a simple question. one that comes up from time to time
in trivia games. which freezes faster, hot water or cold water?
randy
I presume you want to start with two equal sized wooden buckets filled to
the same level, one with hot water and the other with cold, set outside,
no covers on 'em, on a day where the air temperature is below 32F. Right?
The wood provides some insulation between the cold air and the water,
delaying heat loss through that path. The hot water will evaporate faster
than the cold and leave the "hot" bucket with less water in it.
If things are tweaked right, you can find starting water temperatures and
an air temperature which will result in the water remaining in the "hot"
bucket freezing first.
Now, pray tell, where are you going with this? The fellow's water heater
isn't open to the air, so evaporation won't be a factor.
Next?
Jeff
next? we cant even get this far.
hot water freezes slower than cold water. you can manipulate external
factors to create different but seemingly similiar situations to make the
hot water appear to freeze faster but all things being equal, cold water
freezes faster. same reason cold water boils slower than hot water.
temperature = energy.
so, since you decided to ride this horse, here's a taste of how i feel.
****es me off when someone thinks they can slap me away like a child
because they think they know it all. tell me they wont explain cause im
too dumb to understand... bet it does you too. so here's a hint.
entropy.
randy
the guy who is not in the mood for this today
Of course I agree that in most reasonable everyday situations cold water
freezes "faster" than hot water and boils "slower", assuming the masses of
water are equal and the heat removed or added is also equal in each of the
comparisons.
I gave you my response just in case you were trying to be cute and would
then try and "prove" me wrong if I gave you a flat out, "Cold water always
freezes faster", answer.
Several other posters have given good point by point explanations of why
you are wrong, so I don't need to repeat what they've already said.
Skip the hints Randy, I've known what entropy is for over 50 years now.
Just give us a step by step explanation of why you believe the OP's friend
will use MORE overall electrical energy by cutting the power to his water
heater when he leaves for work and turning it back on again when he
returns.
dont sugar coat your insults man. if you want to poke me, look me in the
eye. you say others have proven why i am wrong (although i dont see any
'proof'). why do you need me to say anything? just so you can watch me
squirm? you are the worst of them all. i mean, im used to the usual
'pounce' attack. the ones where people just call you an idiot and be done
with it.
Gee Randy, if that happens so often that you've gotten used to it, it
sounds like you are in the habit of making statements which lead folks
to think that your entire alimentary tract has somehow become reversed.
hell im guilty of it myself sometimes. but you... you pretend
like you give a rip when all you want to do is kick somebody that you think
you have in a weak position. you have offered nothing to this thread that
has anything to do with the topic... but like a shark you smell blood and
here you are.
randy
I didn't have to offer it, because as I said, others had already
explained why you are wrong. IMHO Ralph Becker did an excellent job in
his post of the 28th when he put it this way:
****************************
The water heater will always use less electricity
if you let it cool down. Admittedly, the difference might be
irrelevantly small. Think about it this way: If the unit is being
kept hot, it needs to use energy to overcome the leakage of energy.
This leakage is probably heating the house or basement around the
water heater. But if you let it cool down, it will always leak less
energy. Admittedly, if you let it cool down, you will eventually
(when you heat it back up) have to use a lot of energy at once to
bring it back up to temperature; but still less than if you had kept
it at higher temperature.
Remember: In temperature swings, there is no friction. Getting the
heater back up to temperature costs as much energy as the heater
released when the temperature went down. Where did the heater release
the energy to? Into the leakage - while the power was off. If we had
kept the heater on, we would have had to pay for leakage. But there
was less leakage (due to the lower temperature as the heater cooled
down), so we have a small net gain.
***************************************
Now, if you can find any faulty physics in that Randy, let's hear from you.
No one can't "prove you wrong" unless you give them YOUR proof of why
you think you're right, can they? So where is it?
Sorry if it hurts Randy, but it sounds to me like you just don't know
when it's time to give up, much like my 3 year old grandson in the
throes of a temper tantrum.
Jeff
--
My name is Jeff Wisnia and I approved this message....
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"As long as there are final exams, there will be prayer in public
schools"
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