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(Ray Kinzler) wrote in
om:

Secret Squirrel wrote in message
.97.131...
Once again they evolve. You can offshore the repetitive tasks of
programming. This is a good thing. Let me say it again in case you
weren't listening. This IS A GOOD THING. Just as we learned to use
machines to automate repetitive tasks during the industrial
revolution, this frees creative programmers to CREATE, not simply to
do drone work. You can not outsource creativity. You can not
outsource innovation and you cannot outsource innovative thought.

I disagree. Programming is NOT a cookie-cutter job like putting a nut
on a bolt. It is all about creativity and innovation and thought.

Which is exactly what I said. There are thousands of repetitive tasks
that dont especially need to be done people with a ton of training. They
can be assigned to others so others can create and innovate

It sounds to me like these things you said can't be outwourced are
being outsourced. I see it in my own company. An entire ERP system
is being designed and implemented by Tata. Nary an American in the
new ERP system mix. All off-shore, in fact. And they will be piling
a bunch of prgrammers on the project who have all had two weeks of
mainframe programming training provided to them--all the while we laid
off a score of competent programmers, each having literally years of
experience.

What's wrong with this picture??

Well other than the fact that the project will likely fail? There have
been lots of articles recently regarding off shoring development
projects, many of them regrading jobs that were brought back onshore.
They all share the same basic theme. If you have a project that is
defined in every possible regard, the Indian prgrammers can write the
code. However, if the project requires any innovation, creativity of
devaition from the printed specs, they cannot. Writing the oriiginal
project specifications to this degree is just as time consuming in many
cases as writing the actual program in the first place.

And I wish I could find the article I read somewhere--I think it was
CIO Magazine or some weekly/biweekly publication but a Chinese factory
decided they were going to see what would happen if they replaced a
conveyor belt with people moving products along long tables. Know
what they found? It was cheaper to use Chinese labor than to run a
conveyor belt. Sort of backwards from what Henry Ford did.

Listen, I have no problem with doing doing things off-shore but when
you have the American workforce being forced to train their
replacements solely because there people are willing to work for $12 a
week, it is just plain wrong.

I know score of laid off programmers and other IT types but you still
have the Indians badgering Congress to allow more H1B and L1 visas
into the country because there is still an IT worker shortage. What
hogwash.

Last point: If you think the President of the United States has any
power wahtsoever to either stop or speed up outsourcing (or
anything, for taht matter) is sadly mistaken. He is just the
Executive Branch. There are two other branches that carry just as
much, if not MORE, weight: the Legislative Branch (House and
Senate) and the Judicial Branch (Supreme Court, judges, etc.). If
people want to make changes one way or the other, they need to pay
attention to all three branches, not just one.

And the real issue of this election is the supreme court (which has
essentially nothing to do with trade policies by the way). The next
president will appoint at least one, and potentially as many as 4
justices. Sadly other than one question in the last debate which was
dodged by both candiates this issue has not been mentioned during
this campaign.

Yes, I agree. The Supreme Court justices are a very important outcome
of the election.