On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 09:06:55 +0100, "IMM" wrote:
My God! The "technology" is not in the erection. That is like saying a
bricklayers skills is "technology".
Together with the bricks, it is.
Otherwise one could dream up all kinds of complicated materials that
require a lot of skill to use them, and when they fail say that it was
the workmanship.
If it is done right it is done right whether very high skill or very low
skill. Get it?
That simply doesn't correlate.
If you comprehend something so simple you get therapy.
I have no need of therapy.
Have you ever tought about English lessons, at all?
Either something is easy and can
be done correctly by unskilled people
or it can't.
They are not unskilled. They just don't need a 5 year apprenticeship.
I see. So which is it? Skilled or not?
For a design to be foolproof, it shouldn't be possible
to put it together incorrectly.
Like IKEA furtiture?
If something is billed as being suitable for unskilled assempbly, yes.
Clearly in this case it is possible
because people have done it.
As can be done with any construction method. SAIP panels just happen to be
the easiest method to get a highly sound and thermally insulated self
supporting highly rigid shell up.
Easiest for who? If it really was easy, there would not have been
the problems that were seen in Alaska.
If you read the report, you would learn that all sorts of things can
go wrong.
That doesn't make the material
bad, per sec, just the claim that it
doesn't require some skill.
Now one is making that claim, this is in your narrow mind.
Just look at most of the U.S. manufacturer web sites.
For a technology to be successful,
it does have to be easily
implemented or the outcome will be a failure.
Then none is successful then.
I didn't say that either. I simply
pointed out that implementation
is part of a successful technology.
The technology and the skills to implement are mutually excusive.
In terms of the outcome, both are required.
I haven't said that SIPs can't be useful
or successful, nor have I
disputed their popularity.
You are attempting to rubbish the
system and not doing a good a job.
I am not rubbishing anything.
You are attempting to.
Nope. I am simply applying some perspective.
I am simply pointing out that it is
subject to problems if not used
or inspected properly.
Nonsense. You came in with a tabloid headline attempting to pass off poor
workmanship as in inherent problem of SIP design and the technology behind
the panels, implying that all SIPs will go the same way.
The article was published by an industry association.
In fact it does cite some manufacturing defects and tolerance issues,
but mainly it points out that construction is not unskilled.
You, on the other hand, are attempting
to paint a rosy picture of
something without any problems.
There is no problem with SIPs as long as they are installed properly, then
no problems. The advantages are colossal compared to other methods in
construction (a quick weather tight shell) and the finished end product.
Go and read the article. It indicates that there are a whole bunch
of issues ranging from manufacturing to design and engineering to
installation where a tightening up in the industry is clearly
required.
This is in the U.S. where this technology has been in use for years.
You are advocating its use in the UK. Is the training and inspection
infrastructure in place, and the skills to design? Is it validated
for long term use in our climate?
Are the manufacturers and builders willing to offer a long and fully
remedial guarantee?
so can understand that
you would have difficulty with the
concept that things *can* have
problems.
Not if installed correctly, which is an easy thing to do with SIPs.
So why did the construction people run into trouble in Alaska?
I travel around a lot, and have yet to see more than one
development and a couple of self build places using this.
You do not go on construction site and know frig all about SIPS. Stop
making things up.
I don't think that one needs to actually step onto a site to see
houses being thrown up from OSB panels........
I saw a number of homes in Milton Keynes
built of SIPs go up in days.
Yet another reason not to live in Milton Keynes.
The good people of Milton Keynes, this advanced lookahead city, would drive
the likes of you out of town.
ROTFL.
Once the shell was up the tiles were
put on the SIP roofs, and the
rest was easily worked on. House were
built in no time at all. Many SIP
companies are sprouting up in preparation
for the building boom.
The question will then be whether people
will buy these ticky-tacky
houses or prefer traditional masonry.
These houses are super solid and people are flocking to them. One last
winter never even had its heating system on. The systems were put in just
in case.
Are they? Where?
As regards to structural integrity, huge
chucks can be cut out of them. It
is common to cut out your own doors and
windows using a large jig saw.
I am sure that this needs to be
properly planned out to ensure that
sufficient support for the roof remains
in place.
They have a table for this sort of thing.
That's something. Does it have allowances by size of rat?
If there is then damage to the structure
as the result of damp or
vermin attack, this would be a question
mark.
A question mark one what? Vermin attack can happen to any construction
material, less likely with SIPs are the foam is impregnated..
So rats eat bricks now?
..andy
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