"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 00:40:40 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 17:27:46 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .


It doesn't matter whether the problem
was in the material, training for the installers,
lack of inspection or anything else.
Taken in total, the technology and its
implementation can and did fail

The technology never failed. Workmanship
did. You obviously can't tell the difference.

The technology *includes* the implementation.

It doesn't

Clearly it does.

Do you imagine that these products self erect?

My God! The "technology" is not in the erection. That is like saying a
bricklayers skills is "technology".

Otherwise one could dream up all kinds of complicated materials that
require a lot of skill to use them, and when they fail say that it was
the workmanship.

If it is done right it is done right whether very high skill or very low
skill. Get it?

That simply doesn't correlate.


If you comprehend something so simple you get therapy.

Either something is easy and can
be done correctly by unskilled people
or it can't.

They are not unskilled. They just don't need a 5 year apprenticeship.

For a design to be foolproof, it shouldn't be possible
to put it together incorrectly.

Like IKEA furtiture?

Clearly in this case it is possible
because people have done it.

As can be done with any construction method. SAIP panels just happen to be
the easiest method to get a highly sound and thermally insulated self
supporting highly rigid shell up.

That doesn't make the material
bad, per sec, just the claim that it
doesn't require some skill.

Now one is making that claim, this is in your narrow mind.

For a technology to be successful,
it does have to be easily
implemented or the outcome will be a failure.

Then none is successful then.

I didn't say that either. I simply
pointed out that implementation
is part of a successful technology.

The technology and the skills to implement are mutually excusive.

I haven't said that SIPs can't be useful
or successful, nor have I
disputed their popularity.

You are attempting to rubbish the
system and not doing a good a job.

I am not rubbishing anything.

You are attempting to.

I am simply pointing out that it is
subject to problems if not used
or inspected properly.

Nonsense. You came in with a tabloid headline attempting to pass off poor
workmanship as in inherent problem of SIP design and the technology behind
the panels, implying that all SIPs will go the same way.

You, on the other hand, are attempting
to paint a rosy picture of
something without any problems.

There is no problem with SIPs as long as they are installed properly, then
no problems. The advantages are colossal compared to other methods in
construction (a quick weather tight shell) and the finished end product.

I know that you have difficulty in
seeing things other than in black
and white,

You are the one who blurbs tabloid headlines.

so can understand that
you would have difficulty with the
concept that things *can* have
problems.

Not if installed correctly, which is an easy thing to do with SIPs.

However, demonstrably, poor execution
can lead to a poor outcome, so
they are not the panacea that you claim.

They are. they will be common in the UK
very soon as many developers gear
up for them.

Really?

Yep.

I travel around a lot, and have yet to see more than one
development and a couple of self build places using this.

You do not go on construction site and know frig all about SIPS. Stop
making things up.

I saw a number of homes in Milton Keynes
built of SIPs go up in days.

Yet another reason not to live in Milton Keynes.

The good people of Milton Keynes, this advanced lookahead city, would drive
the likes of you out of town.

Once the shell was up the tiles were
put on the SIP roofs, and the
rest was easily worked on. House were
built in no time at all. Many SIP
companies are sprouting up in preparation
for the building boom.

The question will then be whether people
will buy these ticky-tacky
houses or prefer traditional masonry.

These houses are super solid and people are flocking to them. One last
winter never even had its heating system on. The systems were put in just
in case.

As regards to structural integrity, huge
chucks can be cut out of them. It
is common to cut out your own doors and
windows using a large jig saw.

I am sure that this needs to be
properly planned out to ensure that
sufficient support for the roof remains
in place.

They have a table for this sort of thing.

If there is then damage to the structure
as the result of damp or
vermin attack, this would be a question
mark.

A question mark one what? Vermin attack can happen to any construction
material, less likely with SIPs are the foam is impregnated..


snip babbling drivel from a Little Middle England mentalist who lacks
comprehension