On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:59:48 -0000, "IMM" wrote:




They generally do not. Most it is about equal in area.

Nonsense.

Detached House. 7m x 7m x 5m high
Outside wall area 140 sq metres
Ceiling area 49 sq metres

You have to look at individual upper rooms.

OK. So present a worked example of a typical house of today, yours
if you like, and show figures for why you believe this is significant
in the context of this discussion.

Obviously this is important in terms of heat emitter sizing but that
is not the discussion here



My main bedroom
has a very large ceiling area. More than the walls.

By counting three walls as internal? That's a crock

Not in that room it isn't.

OK, so why don't you present some real figures and workings to
demonstrate your point.


And when you take into
account much of the outside walls have build-in wardrobes across them,
there
is not much wall area at all compared to ceiling area. Most homes have
built-in floor to ceiling wardrobes these days, with many of them against
outside walls, which gives an extra level of insulation against the
outside
walls. Packing in loft insulation for the benefit of the upper rooms is a
win, win, win situation, giving greater benefits to these rooms than
others.
It is worth alone just for these rooms.

This is just pulling things out of the air.

It is NOT! It is looking at the house realistically, instead of one blob of
a box.

On that argument you would insulate different rooms to different
degrees.

If there were a real issue here, rooms would be insulated from one
another in addition to anything related to external surfaces.
Unless one wants to deliberately maintain a temperature of one room at
a significantly different temperature from the others, insulation
between them is not used, simply because the overall differences are
6-8 degrees.



As I have told you. Last August in a heat wave, the coolest roomin my
house
was the main bedroom. The insulatio above proteced it from the 55C in
the
loft above. A breeze runningthrough the uper windows, which are beter for
breeze being higher up, and it was very comfortable.

Maybe you should try mirrors on the ceiling as well......

If these wo rk then I will. Do you have a URL?


Depends on the house in question. 90% plus will benefit and many others
will greatly benefit.

Figures? Otherwise this is just armwaving again.

Figures? For what type of house? Do they all one bedroom wall top to toe
built-in cupboards? Etc, etc.

Just provide a typical example with worked figures to demonstrate your
point if you believe there is one.



If you are saying that adding insulation where there was none before
makes a significant difference to the overall effect in the house, I
will accept it. I don't accept that insulating up to 300-400 mm
rather than 100 or 150 makes a huge difference to the *total* for a
house because the figures don't support that.

You are a thicko! The upper rooms greatly benefit, of which there is
usually 3 or 4 bed and one or two baths. You make the silly mistake of
looking at the whole house and treating it as one with all rooms being
equal. Big mistake.

I've done heating calculations in fine detail for different
properties, counting losses and gains through internal surfaces as
well.

The devil is in the detail. Your detail was not fine enough. It is worth
having high levels of insulation in my house just to keep the bedrooms warm
and cool. For those who have an upper room as an office the benefits are
even greater. Keeping bedrooms cool is good in preventing cots deaths too.
I'm sure the lower rooms didn't benefit too much.

So please provide the detailed data and worked examples to justify
these assertions. Yes I know that cooler bedrooms impact SIDS so you
don't need to search Google for those numbers. Stick to the point
of providing the detailed data on the extent to which insulation at
your recommended 350-600mm makes the large difference that you claim
relative to 100-150mm, stated in the context of the house in total.





Even in the depths of winter, once the bedrooms are up to temperature, the
TRVs virtually stay off all day. I have the bedroom doors always closed, so
no heat is rising from downstairs into them.




---

..andy

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