Leon wrote:


"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:59:15 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

Charlie Self wrote:

Yup, I guess you're right. Correct, that is. Obviously right. The
Constitution is all screwed up, according to you, because the
presumption
of innocence comes from that source.

Would you care to tell us where, exactly, in the Constitution this
principle
is established?

The 5th,

"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous
crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in
cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in
actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be
subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb;
nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against
himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process
of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just
compensation. "

Nothing there places burden of proof on the government. Only establishes
procedures.

6th,

"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy
and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein
the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been
previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause
of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have
compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the
Assistance of Counsel for his defence. "

Nothing there places burden of proof on the government either.

and 14th Amendments.

I'm not going to quote the whole thing there but the equal protection clause
does not place burden of proof on the government.

I think you will find that the presumption of innocence comes out of English
common law and was established in the US by case law rather than by
statute.


I believe presumed innocent pertains more to something that happens with
no
witnesses. If you are seen doing something and are caught red handed
doing the deed, presumed innocence means squat in my book.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)