On 11/05/2021 10:37, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 11 May 2021 07:05:32 +0000 (UTC), RJH
wrote:

On 10 May 2021 at 22:16:08 BST, "Fredxx" wrote:


There is nothing unnatural in drinking cows milk, a commodity with
energy, minerals and vitamins, including B12. Milk is part of a natural
balanced diet.

How are you defining 'natural'?

On the production side, I don't see anything natural in what we do to cows,
however well they're kept.

On the consumption side, even if there is a requisite and physiological need
for cow's milk (there isn't) there are plenty of relatively benign
alternatives.

But I think this does boil down to what you think 'natural' means.

Spot on, or how much of a troll you are and willing to try to argue
black is white, just to get someone to talk to you.

But you're idea of natural is perverse, which is substituting foodstuff
that we have evolved to consume with unnatural substitutes, in many
instances has been made through industrial processes.

I keep hearing about what we *had to do* often thousands of years ago
as if it is some justification of what we *need* or *should* do today
when it's obvious to anyone with any compassion or understanding about
the bigger picture of the world we live in that we simply can't (and
shouldn't in any case) carry on like this.

If we have evolved over those years to consume meat and drink milk, it
follows it is natural to continue to consume the same.

It isn't a vegan stance, it's a science stance.

It has no basis in science, only in your fanatical mind.

What might have worked, been sustainable 'years ago' isn't any longer
and the ludicrousness of having to feed and deal with the gasses,
waste pollution and environmental destruction (directly and
indirectly) of *more livestock* than humans on the planet every day
seems to escape the attention of those who prefer to hide away from
such facts and bury their head in the sand?

Some of your posts have highlighted the additional population the land
could support if crops were only grown for direct human consumption.
That according to Malthus would lead to an even greater world population.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthusianism

And lead to a faster destruction of the planet.

I'm just highlighting the news here, millions of others including all
the top scientists are doing the same the world over.

The top scientists advocate a natural balanced diet, and that can only
include meat and meat products.

Even the likes of all the farming shows and Countryfile are regularly
stating that 'we need to move towards more of a plant based diet' and
this is even from those with a vested interest in the continuation of
the exploitation of animals for profit.

I'm not aware of such claims. Certainly animal husbandry is labour
intensive and I'm sure landowners would prefer high value crops
involving minimal labour.

As for the trolls here, you really are wasting your breath mate. They
aren't interested in any 'discussion', just being trolls ;-(

We are interested in discussion, but with a fanatic closed to
alternatives it is difficult where they resort to abuse when they
repeatedly lose the argument.