On Mon, 10 May 2021 17:42:50 +0000 (UTC), RJH
wrote:
snip

They are treated like members of the family.

A member of the family they exploit every day you mean? Your daughter
makes *herself* a toy and you take it away, forcing her to make
another, and another and another ... unless you are saying 'hobby'
(something you have introduced into the conversation as a strawman
from the main point) farmers don't use the eggs?

I'm not sure it's a cruel/kind binary.

Well, no, not once we have got to the position of 'rescuing' a
creature from what can only be seen as a form of animal slavery
possibly.

A rescue hen kept in decent conditions
until they die. It's not ideal but I do see a mutual benefit.

That can be the $100 question. eg, *Is* it really better to 'keep' an
animal like that, rather than killing it (given we have already
brought it into the world to exploit) etc, certainly in comparison
with it not being part of any industrial process in the first place.

This choice would very much depend on just how 'natural' it's life was
in any 'rescue' environment.

I don't believe
I'm anthropomorphising here - I obviously don't *know* how the hen might be
feeling about it all.

Understood. I don't anthropomorphise either, I don't need to to *know*
that most and certainly all the highly sentient animals have feelings
etc.

And the eggs are just waste I'd have thought, from the
hen's POV?

Only because it's not in a 'natural' environment ...

In the wild, a flock of hens (like the red jungle fowl and likely a
very close relative of what we call a chicken) would live in a small
flock with a mix of cocks and hens. If there were no cocks (or hens)
the flock would eventually die out.

With a cock the hens will have their eggs fertilised (I'll leave you
to ask your parents to explain the 'how' on that g), and so a hen
will build and sit on a small clutch of eggs, not having any more
during this time and until the eggs hatch and become more cocks and
hens. Like most birds, the chances are there will also be breeding
seasons (often trigger by increasing daylight hours) where they know
they will have the best chance to be able to feed and train their
offspring to look after themselves.

I'm guessing with the lack of predators, once the flock has reached a
certain size (they can 'recognise' about 100 of their kind apparently,
their social group) a sub group may break off and start a new flock
(probably led by a dominant cock) etc.

So, if you keep just hens then they will keep laying eggs (because as
you say, once they have one in the system it has to go somewhere) and
yes, at that point it would be a waste product but is rarely 'wasted'
by them as they will eat them themselves, especially the shell to
recoup the lost calcium.

So taking the eggs away (and broody hens will sit on a clutch
unfertilised eggs (21 days or so) and so stop laying more) means the
hen well *keep* making eggs and that isn't natural.

I'd concede my view is largely informed by looking after some hens
for a few weeks - I don't really know what I'm talking about.

I would imagine you have done more and so got closer to these
intelligent and inquisitive social creatures than most and so see them
more than their body parts in 'a bucket' and covered in the bit that
most people *actually* crave, the dopamine and 'herbs and spices'.

I'd offer anyone my waste products but I don't think I'd get many takers :-)

Well, until we biodigest more human waste you could be right. ;-)

Cheers, T i m