On 09/05/2021 14:11, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 9 May 2021 11:34:29 +0100, Andrew
wrote:

On 06/05/2021 19:03, GB wrote:
I bake most of the bread we eat, and it's nearly all vegan. But, for one
thing!

I need/like to glaze some of the loaves, and I haven't found a decent
substitute for egg to do that. I've tried the liquid from tinned
chickpeas, but it's really naff compared to nice shiny egg.

So, can you suggest a decent vegan substitute, please?

We have vegan guests, and I'm fed up with apologising for the poorly
glazed bread.



what's wrong with eggs from local suppliers, the hobby farm types
who treat their hens like pets ?.

Because (and possibly though ignorance) they aren't treating them like
pets they are (typically) abusing and exploiting them like slaves. ;-(

Is that an admission you abuse and exploit your dogs like slaves?

Most people don't keep a dog

It is true most ethical vegans don't.

and have it work for them generating
electricity on a treadmill or getting it to dig over the garden by
burying bones here and there?

Quite, pets are abused and exploited for your personal pleasure.

A chicken is no different to no other bird in that they have a desire
to lay eggs, build a clutch (of varying number depending on the
species), sit on those eggs (incubation), have them hatch and then
tend / feed / protect their chicks until they are mature enough to
'fly the nest'. They might also only have restricted breeding seasons.

We have exploited the chicken (and some other birds) by taking their
eggs away from them and so forcing them to keep laying them in an
effort to form a clutch and in so doing cause them mental stress and
putting extra strain on their reproductive systems. By taking the eggs
away you also remove the ability for her to use the egg itself as a
way of recouping some of the lost calcium (seen at it's worst in
battery farms by all the birds with broken limbs).

Then campaign to improve welfare standards, from your admission we know
you don't want to.

Taking on an ex battery hen is obviously a good thing in the sense of
their living conditions (they are also under mental strain when forced
into a shed containing 10,000 other chickens because they can't cope
with that large a social group (they would normally be in flocks of
less than 100 as they can only recognise 100 other birds to know they
are friends / family and not aggressors from another flock) but may
not be much better off in other ways.

How did you measure this stress? It's a fact that pigs are less stressed
when reared in sheds in benign conditions.

Also, they are typically forced to roost on the ground (and so
vulnerable to foxes as foxes do get into their cages etc) when they
would normally roost in the trees to be away from such predators.
Having a fox wandering round at eye level and trying to get into your
house is way more stressful than looking at that fox from 20 feet
above it.

Not many chicken owners leave their chickens vulnerable to foxes,
however much you'd like this to be so.

Also, if you take on (and especially if you 'buy' from the farmer) an
ex battery chicken you aren't doing the chickens (in general) any
favour if that outlet is more profitable (or even less loss) for the
farmer.

Quite, a bit like your animal rescue centre, they "aren't doing the digs
(in general) any favour if that outlet is more profitable (or even less
loss) for the dog breeders."

It's the same as people who buy animals from food markets in China and
set them free, the person trapping them in the wild is still getting
reward for their exploitation.

On top of that, given that male chickens play no part useful in the
egg industry, they are all generally killed at about 1 day old by
being fed live into a macerator.

It's a pretty quick and painless way to go.

https://ibb.co/JmYzpVz

Are you confusing animal life with human life? They are different. Do
you cry every time you step on an ant?

https://ibb.co/YyrMXZc

He's probably not aware of the environment he's in.

Rarely is it the obvious, it's often also all the stuff that goes on
behind the scenes that people who don't want to support all this
cruelty and exploitation want to make people aware of.

If you disapprove of these scenes then campaign for their improvement.
It's a shame you don't care about animal welfare while the animal is alive.

Given humans are supposed to be so intelligent and therefore
remorseful, you would think we would have devise other ways of
surviving without having to cause suffering, exploitation and death of
millions of sentient, intelligent, social and trusting [1] animals by
now ... and for the vast majority we have of course.

Intelligence and remorsefulness are not synonyms. We have evolved to eat
meat and drink milk as part of a natural balanced diet.

https://ibb.co/rdQvftm ;-)

No we really don't. Man has advanced and because we can cook and consume
high value foods such as meat and meat products. The alternative is
being cattle spending 1/2 the day eating grass and consuming all that
energy to digest it's food. We have come a long way.

Cheers, T i m

[1] And that makes even more disgusting.

The animals you mention are not capable of simple human constructs such
as 'consent'. Were your dogs asked if they would agree to their genitals
being mutilated?

In general we only
'domesticated' animals that were generally gentle, curious,
intelligent (I think pigs are the 4th most intelligent animal, over
dogs and cats) and trusting. We keep, feed and provide shelter ...
then cut their throats ...

Even a crow is said to be more intelligent than a pig. Can a pig
understand consent?