"T i m" wrote in message
...
we only have to think of the animal suffering and we would rather just go
without. The problem is the assumption that we had the right to any of
this stuff in the first place and we didn't

This is the problem I have with veganism: the fact that you (and other
vegans) would rather go without than compromise animal suffering. For me,
the needs/desires of humans comes first. If those can be satisfied without
compromising animals, so much the better.

Humans have eaten meat and animal products (milk, eggs), and used animal
products (wool, leather) for millennia. Now that almost-alternatives are
available for some of these, vegans are deciding to shun the animal
products. Fine - that is their choice. I respect it, even if I don't agree
with it. As long as (like religion) they keep their beliefs to themselves
and don't try to foist them on everyone else. In the case of religion and
veganism, the more someone tries to make me feel guilty or inferior, with
emotional/emotive arguments, the more strongly I will resist.

What is the best alternative for leather - for shoes, belts etc? Plastic,
probably, but plastic has a bad press these days. You can't do right for
doing wrong :-( And what about horse saddles - always assuming that vegans
permit the riding of horses for pleasure, now that they are no longer needed
for farming/haulage.

There is a danger that vegans come across as killjoys - you can't do this
and you can't do that because it subjugates or harms animals. If anything in
life is enjoyable, there will be a vegan argument somewhere for not doing
it. Would most people want to live in a vegan world, given all the changes
that it would force on them?