On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 15:24:48 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

On 23/04/2021 10:54, T i m wrote:

Ok, let's make it very simple for you.

We don't need to eat animals or consumes their excretions or exploit
them in any other way.

That is the first lie...

It isn't, it's a statement of scientific fact, and it's the way we are
heading with many things (like car tyres).

it may be true for a small subset of the
sufficiently wealthy,

No, it may be *necessary* for a small subset of the population that
would need to do so to survive.

but it does not hold true for the large swathes of
humanity who depend on animals (dairy in particular) to get adequate
nutrition (and a multitude of other things).

A subset.

Therefore,

the rest of the argument fails before it's started...

Ironically it doesn't.

What you are doing is looking at it from the mind set of a culture
that has normalised the exploitation of animals. This might have been
'acceptable' when science hadn't come up with alternatives but for the
vast majority it's no longer the need now.

And what if we stopped feeding billions of animals food they we could
eat ourselves or stopped wasting many more gallons of water per gallon
of 'milk' to grow alternatives?

But I get it, like many of our age(ish) we were brought up with the
whole animal exploitation thing to be normalised and so I can see how,
if you didn't care about animal suffering (physical and mental),
exploitation and death then 'why would' you want to try to do anything
different now?

Every time I might think of eating an egg I think of the suffering of
the hens and the death of millions of chicks every year who were
macerated, simply because they happen to have been born male.

Every time I might think of drinking milk I think of the cow that will
only live a 1/4 of the time she might naturally (and still can in a
rescue etc) and every time her child is taken away from her and either
forced into the same human-supply slavery or shot in the head (when
just born or a year later).

Ever time I might think of eating bacon I think of the pigs squalling
and screeching desperate to escape the gas that's slowly and painfully
suffocating them ... and before that having their tails cut off and
teeth cut down, simply so they don't damage each other because of the
unnatural numbers they are 'farmed' in.

Every time I think of eating fish I think of them slowly suffocating
on the deck of a ship and either eventually dying of suffocation or
being gutted alive, or swimming wound and round in circles for 3
years, often covered in sea mites and open wounds when they would
naturally be making their way thousands of miles across open oceans
(and back).

And none of the above are machines or some factory output, they are
all sentient beings that feel and sense and have families and social
groups and can fear and do suffer (mentally and physically).

And I'm not anthramorphising any of them, I just respect them for the
individual lives they are, not something we own or can just cause pain
and suffering to for a moments taste.

Do you think we will be still treating animals this way in 100 years
time or that we may have continued evolving to realise none of this is
sustainable or right?

Cheers, T i m