On Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 13:05:49 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 12:01:54 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

On 20/04/2021 20:17, T i m wrote:

With the upcoming local elections I had planned to spoil my paper [1]

I have never really understood why people do that[1]
Really? I thought 'ethics' were your thing?

what has ethics got to do with this.

Is it the belief
that it sends some kind of message?
It's not a belief it's a fact (because spoiled papers *are* actually
counted).

So are those that aren;t counted it's called maths or more likely statistics.

But irrespective of that, if you don't use something you can
lose it so ...

When has that been true they still have votes in russia adn other countries.
Sure they are faked but they still exist and I very much doubt spoilt papers
are taken notice of.

(I could perhaps understand the logic if there was a legitimate "none of
the above" voting option
There is, you add NOTA on there yourself? See, real democracy isn't
just a matter of choosing from what you are offered but maybe changing
how / what is offered?

But none of the above is pretty meaningless.
it basically means you don't agree with voting.
The sounds like the sort of thing Putin does, I don;t give a **** what you vote for
I will be your president, end off.


- but with the current system, ISTM the only
message it sends is "I am a tit"!)
Yes, to you obviously because you are happy to tick the box not think
outside it?

What do you mean by out of the box.
In the EU ref there was stay in the Eu or leave the EU

Out of the box would be to stay in the EU on Monday, wed and friday,
and leave on tuesday thursday and saturday.
And we can pretend sunday doesn't exist.

Is that outside the box enough for you ?


If you don't want to vote for *any* candidate specifically, vote for the
one that you think will do you least harm,
Oh, that make perfect sense (not). We are supposed to vote *for*
something we want, not against something we don't (unless that was the
question). Why do all banners / flyers state in large letters, 'Vote
FOR xyz'?

Well I want someone to turn water into wine, I can only do it the other way around.

or the one you think will
form the most effective opposition to the one you expect to win.
Any how would I ever get to fully understand exactly who / what that
might be? Say one of the 'other' candidates was a vegan and that was
the *only* thing amongst any of the candidates, should I vote for them
on that alone, even though they may not or may not be able to do the
best against animal suffering and exploitation?

Depends on what you truely believe in. Weighing up pros and cons.
Remmeber Hitler was a vegtarian .

I'm betting no one will come up to your standards other than you.
I'm the only one to comes up to my standards ;-)




It's not what I think is best that counts (democratically and
especially being an outsider to it all). It's what those who voted for
them think and by definition that could be 50% + 1 in this weird
system we use.

I noticed you said those that vote what about those that draw a penis on their paper ?
Do we count them ?




A 'world champion' runner isn't likely to be the fastest person in the
world, the chances are they are only the fastest person of those who
have / had the opportunity / interest to take part.

So give me a gold medal for being the fastest person in the world problem sorted.


It seems (as a political outsider) we are quite happy to simply accept
the system as it is, it's something we have always done this way but
not questioned if it could be done better?

Then come up with a better system.


The very fact that someone can get into power simply for their own
interests (eg, not the best interests of the people they are supposed
to represent) allows me to say 'I'm out' very early on.

How do they know what yuo want if you spoil your paper .
You preved you didn't want to leave the EU and proved you didn;t wan tto stay in it.


They get into power by being voted in by a number of people who don't
know them personally but just happen to represent the tribe they (or
their family) have always supported because it matches their
fundamental beliefs (irrespective in most cases of what the practical
outcome is).

Best way iunless you want them to be voted in by those that recieve money or sex from them.


I wonder how many people here have *always* voted the same way all
their lives?

Depends what you mean by the same way doesn't it.


Cheers, T i m