On Mar 24, 2021 at 11:55:45 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
:

On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 19:07:17 -0000, Snit wrote:

On Mar 16, 2021 at 11:52:42 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
:



...
Building a stronger tie between productivity and financial gain, which is
largely what the left is working for, encourages work.

You're spouting meaningless waffle.

Your failure to understand does not weaken the comment in any way.

You sound like the extreme left Labour government in the UK. What you said is meaningless and incorrect.

Just proclaiming it incorrect does not weaken the argument.

Before the argument is lost in the "yes it is" "no it's not" nonsense, all I
am saying is that when there is stronger tie between productivity and
financial gain, as the left (generally) promotes, this is better for the
individual and for the economy. This does not mean we should have a 1:1 tie --
those who are disabled or otherwise unable to be productive should be taken
care of.

But a stronger link is created by the right wing.

The right wing in the US pushes the idea that funding the rich (where you get
about a 70% return) is the way to go. It is part of the reason why the economy
does so much better under Democrats.

Left wing doesb't let you keep the extra money you earn.

They have not been able to push through changes I would like to see, but at
least many on the left get why it is insane workers have seen less than a 15%
increase in wages since 1980 but CEOs have seen over a 1000% increase.

There's no incentive to be productive if the government steals a third of your hard earned cash.

In the US we have more taken than elsewhere (including taxes and health
insurance premiums). I would like to see us move to something akin to the
models where we pay less and get more.



What we do in the US, though, is backward. We "invest" in the rich more than
we do the poor, though our returns there are less than what we put in... with
the poor we get back more than we invest. It is not complex: a 70% return is
far worse than 140% return. Adding to that, we in America pay an outrageous
amount for sub-standard services: when you include taxes and insurance
premiums we pay over 40% of the money we do get (and remember we do not get
all the money we earn), where in other nations it is FAR less than that --
generally about half of what Americans pay.

Nobody should be paying anything.

That is when you get to the point of moving to a deserted island and not
having to deal with all the services you get from society. No roads or running
water, no Internet or electricity, none of the stuff you take for granted that
comes in part from the tax dollars you do not want to pay.

How can taking half your earnings in tax link productivity with finance?

The average person in the US has 43% of their money going to tax and health
insurance.

So half what they earn is stolen to fund other people. That is criminal.

We call it "freedom" and "choice" in the US to be able to pick which
corporation is going to actively work to deny us healthcare so they can earn a
buck.

That's the way it should be. In the UK we're stuck with the most inefficient and useless health care system possible. And we don't get a choice to use another one in a lot of cases.

You pay less and have better outcomes. I am not saying there is no room for
improvement but why pay more for less? That is often what conservatives push
for and it makes no economic or health sense. Is there anything other than an
emotional tie to such a system which is appealing, or do conservatives really
not get how much worse the US system is in terms of cost and care?

Heck, in the US we hear all the time about people coming from Mexico, but we
have larger numbers going TO Mexico just to get decent health care. Or at
least better than in the US.

Had a friend who needed a surgery. It was cheaper to fly to S. Korea and stay
with family there for a month as he had the procedure done and then fly back
than just to get it done in the US. Utterly insane.

https://www.peoplespolicyproject.org...alth-premiums/

For most countries it is under half that. And in America we not only pay more
but get far less.

Small correction he for most it is around half. In GB it is about 26% for
example... which is more than half of 43% but still significantly less.

If I work twice as hard, I don't get twice the money, so why work hard?

There are many things which disincentive work in the US, though I do not
really care how hard you work, I care more about how productive you are. And
even then there need not be a 1:1 connection, but the connection in the US is
*heavily* broken.

If you produce more, you would earn more money.

With the exception of those who cannot work (or should not, such as kids)

Why shouldn't they? They're fitter than adults. Get them being productive instead of sending them to school to be brainwashed, or to learn things they'll never need. Learn on the job.

Child abuse is not a great thing, though I have no issue with teens having
some type of work.

that is what I support.

No you don't, you want people who earn more to pay more taxes.

I back what *I* say I did. You get no say in it (though I am open to listening
and might have my mind changed).

But it simply a fact I back having a stronger tie between productivity and
financial gain.

Except the government steals it from you, so no point in working harder.

I want to see that reduced. This is largely what the concept of a Social
Democracy is about.

In a Social Democracy the government works largely for the citizens as a
whole, investing in infrastructure and the people. Most major industries are
privately owned (Capitalism), but they get few government handouts and are
generally held accountable for their own risks and costs. Also sometimes
referred to as the "Nordic Model", or something akin to it. With this system
the middle class does better, poverty decreases, and the environment suffers
less harm. This system is defined by the respect for human rights and the
environment.

I never vote for anyone who is for "human rights" or "the environment".

That is very much how American conservatives are -- and with the US being so
conservative it is why we are so far behind the rest of the world in many
ways.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.