On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 07:29:26 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, March 3, 2021 at 3:44:21 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 3 Mar 2021 10:18:31 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/3/2021 2:19 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 2 Mar 2021 15:36:40 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/2/2021 3:03 PM, wrote:

Something is obviously very wrong when customers in TX who were getting $100
electric bills got bills for $10K because of the power problem. I can't even
begin to imagine that happening. You would think the power companies would
say hold those bills, let's work on this. Then go back at the suppliers, saying
this is nuts, we expect some increased costs, even substantial ones, but
$100 to $10K? And they should have told those suppliers to be reasonable,
fix it or we're going public to identify who's ripping you off, there will be
multiple investigations and it's unlikely you'll get away with it or even do
business in America again by the time it's over. But the bigger solution
would be some regulatory caps so that suppliers can't charge totally insane
and unjustifiable prices. Even if they built a new plant that day, it would
not justify those prices.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Those customers were playing the electrical commodities market with
the big boys and like most amateurs who get into commodities, they got
****ed.

I guess it's too much to expect that regulators in a Republican state would
prevent utilities being marketed as utilities when they are actually commodities
that can skyrocket by a factor of a hundred overnight. BTW, I have never
seen any commodity do that, increase by two orders of magnitude in a
day or two, not even in a month, ever. Nothing even close. If you have an example,
I sure would love to see it. I guess that's because the commodities market
is regulated and shysters can't easily pull such a stunt.
Bear in mind Bill Clinton signed the legislation that treated the
derivatives markets as commodities so seeing disasters happen is not
unprecedented.
I don't know of a commodity in particular that has had that much delta
in a day but I don't play the commodities game., It is certainly
possible tho.

It's never happened, nothing even remotely close and the TX electric disaster
has nothing to do with the commodity markets, derivatives, or Clinton.
It has to do with a lot of stupid in TX, including some
really glaring things, like the four ERCOT board members, the regulators,
who resigned. They didn't even live in TX. Or was it 6? But heh,
according to the Republican governor, it was wind mills that were the
problem. According to another Republican, windmills cause cancer.
Stupid is as stupid does.

Nobody put a gun to their head and told them to play the electrical
wholesale game. There were plenty of normal utility options open to
these people but they just got greedy. There are 3d party options for
who you buy your power from all over the country. It just comes with a
warning that this is not a regular utility deal. A few people ignored
the warnings.
Sometimes you just have to let the baby touch the stove.

Yes, no surprise you have no empathy for consumers, including many elderly,
and people of modest means who don't know any better.

If these people got to be elderly and decided to take that gamble,
they didn't learn much in all of those years. When people want
something for nothing they often end up with nothing.

They could have got their electricity from a conventional utility if
they wanted a safe contract.

This is far beyond not safe. I'm sure many of these people knew there
was a risk but there is no justification for $100 bills becoming $10,000
with little or no notice. None. Totally immoral.

Show me where this has happened and where it would be considered "normal
risk" or even a high risk.

So what?
They wanted to be independent and they didn't want any stinking
regulations or anyone's opinion from east of Galveston.
Like I said to Trader. It is none of our business.
My bet is they still won't want any regulations.
Don't mess with Texas


I don't feel bad that they could not get help from the other grids,
shame on them. But to allow a scenario where some poor working slob now
has a $10,000 or $20,000 electric bill is unconscionable.

Look at the repercussions on a modest wage earner that suddenly has huge
debt because the utility commissioners thought is was ok. What does it
do to their kids?

Seriously, are you that big of a prick to just say "tough, deal with it"

Double? Triple? Sure. Thousand times? No.
At a certain point I understand there is not much we can do about it
from here Texas chose to be independent and they reap what they sow.
I don't feel sorry for crack whores and death row inmates either. They
made their choice, now live with it.

Now you equate consumers, including the poor and elderly, ripped off by
evil profiteers in the midst of an energy crisis, to crack whores and death row
inmates. Fits right in with your continual defense of Trump as he said and did one
horrible thing after another. Values matter. Over the last four years, sadly America
has lost of lot of it's values and it's not clear when, if ever, we will recover.

The only ones who got ripped off were the ones who signed up for a
very risky plan to save a short term buck. Due diligence would have
had them looking at regularly.
http://mis.ercot.com/misapp/GetReports.do?reportTypeId=12328&reportTitle=DAM%2 0Hourly%20LMPs&showHTMLView=&mimicKey
When they deregulated power here I was inundated with offers from fly
by night companies all over the country offering a huge but undefined
discount. I just said no. It was easy.
I understand people do dumb stuff in hopes of a big payoff but if they
didn't that Nigerian Prince would never be able to get that $174.5
million out of his country. He needs your help. Just do what those
Griddy people did, let him have your R/T number.

BTW have you noticed how close that name is to "Greedy"?
Coincidence? I don't think so.