On 18/01/2021 10:51, Tim Streater wrote:
On 18 Jan 2021 at 10:15:32 GMT, nightjar wrote:
....
I never saw the differences in the political systems as anything more
than a side issue.

It's the main issue.

For some, no doubt. However, a post-referendum survey found that, for
people whose said they voted leave to regain sovereignty, the main
reason given was that they wanted Britain to be an independent nation;
i.e. isolationism. The second reason given by those who wanted to regain
sovereignty was that they believed the unsubstantiated claims that
Britain would be better off if it could make its own trade deals.
Dissatisfaction with the political system of the EU did not seem to
register highly, even among those who said they wanted to regain
sovereignty. Then, of course, others saw immigration as the main issue,
while around a third of leave voters said they believed that it would
get the NHS an extra £350m a week. For me, the main issue is the damage
that Brexit will do to the UK economy.

Neither system is without its faults and both have
advantages. Choosing one over the other is an emotional choice.

No, it indicates whether you believe in democracy or not.

Even choosing democracy over another political system is an emotional
choice. People who live in democracies tend to think it is the best
system, but democracy brought Hitler to power.

....
That is the reverse of how it is (at least supposed to) work here. What d'ye
think the Glorious Revolution was all about?

It was about a power grab by Parliament. They wanted more power and were
willing to conspire with a foreign power to depose the King to get it.
The Prince of Orange got local support for a pre-emptive strike against
a possible ally of France in the upcoming war. In return he granted
Parliament the power that it craved, but they didn't have many options
had he refused to give them that power.

The Bill of Rights is hailed as a great milestone in the rights of the
people. However, like Magna Carta before it, when written it was only
intended to give rights to a rich and powerful few. That others also
benefited was never part of the original plan.

....
Not that I think that we in this country are particularly special. We just had
the good fortune to be in a position to evolve our governmental system rather
than have it change by revolution....

Which means we have ended up with a system created by a few powerful
people for their own benefit, that has slowly, usually with great
resistance, been subject to some reforms.

Had the system been removed completely and re-written, we might have one
that actually reflects the will of the people. Instead, we have a system
where one party can hold 56.2% of the seats in the Commons with only
43.6% of the popular vote. We also have a completely unelected upper
house, whose members comprise some there by right of birth, those who
hold high rank in the clergy and the rest being political appointees.



--
Colin Bignell